http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8945/ikkenavngivet9zs.png
The Automobile Club de l'Ouest (ACO), organizers of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, has announced the retirement of the "roadster" prototypes that have dominated the race in the past few years as, from 2010 onwards, only coupes will be allowed to compete in the event's top class, LMP1.


Current LMP1 specs allow for both coupes and open-top prototypes; however, by the current set of regulations, the roadsters have proven to have the competitive edge. In the last seven years, only one coupe - Bentley's EXP Speed 8 in 2003 - has claimed overall honors at La Sarthe.

The measure intends to make the top Le Mans machines more recognizable for the public, as coupes theoretically look closer to road cars. The specs for the second prototype class, LMP2, will remain unaffected, allowing roadsters to race on in the junior category.

"People should be able to identify with the front-running technology of the 24 Hours of Le Mans," said ACO sporting director Daniel Poissenot. "We have discussed this with the manufacturers, and there will be no choice to have an open roof from 2010. Cars will still use the same engines and bottom chassis.

"This will be the spirit of Le Mans for the future."

The new regulations will also be in effect for all championships that abide to ACO's specs, including the American Le Mans Series in the U.S. Now that's the best news I've heard for years - ACO are starting to make sense.
But still, it sucks that they always have to change the regulations - If the manufacturers won't spend 90 million dollars on a car that has to be replaced after a few years, they might just stop entrying in Le Mans.
I wonder what Audi and Peugeot think about this one, especially Peugeot. Their car probably won't be competitve with the Audis before 2008. Two years later they will have to build a whole new, and more expensive car.
It shouldn't be impossible to design an R10 with coupe bodywork though, seeing as it's more or less designed like the Bentley LMPGT. But at that time it will be four years old anyway.

Well well well.
The ACO have started seeing sense.

Yeah, now they just need to remove those chicanes, then the real Le Mans spirit would be back. Although rumours say that they are up to making the cars even slower.

Intrasting.
I don't think it will be to bad for Audi. From what I'v seen in the pics of the R10 they just need to cut those big cones off and put a carbon fibre roof over the top.
Although that is the overly simple version.

Even slower is a load of bollocks.
The stupid FIA and the ACO just change the rules for safety and they want safety safety not motorsport motorsport. It's a load of bull*****.

Intrasting.
I don't think it will be to bad for Audi. From what I'v seen in the pics of the R10 they just need to cut those big cones off and put a carbon fibre roof over the top.
Although that is the overly simple version
They will have to develop a whole new monocoque which needs to get crash tested and some other bullshit. It's probably gonna be made by Dallara while the rest of the new parts will be located througout Europe. It will cost more, a lot more than it sounds like. They will even have to get an air-condition system in there! Such one weights around 80 kg's on a common road car, so if they fail to make it considerable lighter, it will be the sausage of death at all points on Sarthe.

^Oh
Are you saying the aircon weights 80Kg more than normal or the car does.
Because that is damn heavy for a car made aout of cb and exotic metals.

^Oh
Are you saying the aircon weights 80Kg more than normal or the car does.
Because that is damn heavy for a car made aout of cb and exotic metals.An air condition system weights around 80 kg in a common family car. If those in the race cars weight so much, the cars will be pretty heavy.
The aircon in the race cars is gonna be able to cool the cockpit down from 60 C to 35 C within five minutes after a pit stop, and keep the temperature like that while driving. That's going to be pretty close to impossible. So it's gonna require a hell of a system, which probably will kill some engine power and add a lot of weight.

i think that audi will just go back to the bently design and fix it up a bit, i dont think they will put Ac way to heavy..i think just alot of intake ducts and maybe a few fans.

Airconditioning is mandatory for all closed cars from 2007.

It shouldn't be that bad. Just put a big intake duct in front of the cabin and have it blasting air through with an intercooler type setup. It would be pretty effective at night with those speeds. As well as some vents out the back.

The R10 will get problems. It's already 10 kilo too heavy. The mandatory aircondition system weights roughly 25 kg, and I don't even wanna think of the weight of a greenhouse!

Admitted. It's not going to be as easy as I thought after I found some more info. They might ban the typical F1 nose, and try and make the cars look like roadcars. Think of a 90's GT1 racer.

From what I've understood, they wanna change the front from something like this,
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1939/bentleyspeed88cu.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bentleyspeed88cu.jpg)
to somethign like this. Partly to make the car look closer to a road car, and partly to cut down on air intakes to increase engine power.
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/14/clr1024x76822rx.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clr1024x76822rx.jpg)
They will also get narrow rearwings to reduce downforce. The greenhouse is gonna be wider as well, so a car like a TS020 or Speed 8 would simply not work.
Bah, I'm starting to regret my words about ACO starting to make sense. I was expecting LM GTP's because Kristensen and Ickx presented the Bentley on the official "launch" of these new regulations.
But there's many years to go, and plenty of time to add some sense. Maybe the cars will turn out as modern Gruop C racers with lack of power and downforce.

Wow thats not sounding good.
Why would they want it to look like a road car though?
How come the R10 is allowed to race if it is over weight?
What is the point of reducing the downforce? It will just slow the cars down resulting in a boring race.

Wow thats not sounding good.
Why would they want it to look like a road car though?
How come the R10 is allowed to race if it is over weight?
What is the point of reducing the downforce? It will just slow the cars down resulting in a boring race.
1. No, but the ACO regulations are not too thorough. In 1998 Toyota turned the GT1 class into the LM GTP class in form of the GT One. Hopefully some teams will spot a hole and build a real GT Prototype. But it's going to be close to impossible if the greenhouse is going to be built with space for a non-existing passenger, which I think it is.
2. To attract bigger public interest, and bigger interest from major factory teams (Which is good marketing strategy for the manufacturers and good for "the Le Mans spirit"). The whole LMP1 grid is said to be reserved for factory cars only. However I'm confuzzled. It's not easy to find out what is rumours and what is true.
3. I don't know. On Sebring its weight was 935 Kg, but they haven't let anything out about Le Mans. (Le Mans has a minimum on 900 kg and a maximum on 925, if I remember i right)
4. Yeah, they think it improves the safety, although I'd say lack of downforce through Indianapolis could get ugly, and it could cause some flying cars on Mulsanne - That's especially dangerous to closed cars because they have a thicker airfoil, but now I'm approaching a point where I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.

Ermm...I think it is fair for every1.

Yeah, it's going to be fair. But it's going to be hard to fill the grid with factory teams. The new Pug will probably not be made fitting the new regulations, and Audi will basically have to return to the drawing board. Porsche is pissed off about these new regulations, they want to talk with other teams and then with ACO. It's a complete revision of the regulations. Nothing will carry over, so it's going to be very expensive, and it's going to suck for teams like Audi, Pug and Porsche - If Porsche are bulding a traditional LMP, which they probably are, since they kinda gave a hint away when they said they don't like the 2010 regs.

By the way, I found this one. It was used at the press conferrence. Don't know if it tells anything about how the cars will look like, but notice the rearwindow. Probably to make it look more like a road car.
http://www.endurance-info.com/2006_Le_Mans/Vendredi_089.jpg

Damn that will suck. Is there no way if say 3 of 4 teams say the rules suck they will change them. Because if no one is racing there is no point watching.
Because how many other teams are there apart from Pescarlo/Pug, Audi, Porsche and Bentalty. They are the only factory teams I can think of.

I don't know. There were twelve LMP1 cars on the grid in 2006.
Audi used to have three factory cars on the grid. But I don't know if it's against the regulations now.
Bentley won't enter factory cars if Audi does it. The 2003 bentley was a factory entry instead of the R8. Then there will probably be two new 908's, or whatever Pug will be using at that time. As for Porsche, it's doubtfull whether they will be there or not. Anyway, that doesn't even fill half the P1 grid. Not even If all of them enterd three cars.
But the point of it is to attract a bigger interest from factory manufacturers, so maybe there will be Jag's, Nissan's, Toyota's, Mercedes' and that kind of stuff for 2010.

Probably to make it look more like a road car.
http://www.endurance-info.com/2006_L...ndredi_089.jpg
Agree. I think the R10 will be heavier.

An air condition system weights around 80 kg in a common family car. If those in the race cars weight so much, the cars will be pretty heavy.
The aircon in the race cars is gonna be able to cool the cockpit down from 60 C to 35 C within five minutes after a pit stop, and keep the temperature like that while driving. That's going to be pretty close to impossible. So it's gonna require a hell of a system, which probably will kill some engine power and add a lot of weight.

To come back on that for a minute, teh airco unit in my FC weighed 50 lbs/22 kgs. It didn't loko particularly light either.
I'd say 18-20 kg airco's would be possible.

Yeah, I think those in the race cars are going to weigh around 25 kg or less.
I just remember I read somewhere that a good system in a common road car weights around 80 kg, so I thought it would be a weighty beast.

Airconditioning is mandatory for all closed cars from 2007.

Really?
What's closed cars?

^ Cars with roofs

Aha, thought so.
Thanks anyway.

Yeah, I think those in the race cars are going to weigh around 25 kg or less.
I just remember I read somewhere that a good system in a common road car weights around 80 kg, so I thought it would be a weighty beast.

:eek:

:confused:

:-k
:|

That's an aweful lot of weight to avoid sweat stains in your armpits.
I can imagine that the race systems will be somewhat more heavy duty then the stock systems but in essence an airco is smaller then a freezer and therefor can be expected to be lighter.

It would of course explain part of the 4200 lbs excess weight the Veyron has.
Ever seen those office aircos? I mean the real aircoones. Not teh climate control boxes.
They are rather light and cover a lot of space as well. (for comparison that is)

Here's Lola's new closed top B06/10, called B10/10 (http://www.mulsannescorner.com/LolaB1010-1.jpg)

But think about it for a second...

Is Lola considered a manufacturer? Lola don't make road cars, and ACO want the cars to have styling from the the manufacturers' road cars, a GT1 sized greenhouse, a narrow rear wing and a relative high ride hight. That car won't meet the 2010 regulations at all. Especailly not when ACO want the car to have styling from the manufacturer's road cars.

I think ACO are about to mess up really bad. But it would be great if they made it work. Both for manufacturers and for the rest of us.

I think they are just the engine maker or the sponsor.

Lola is a race car manufacturer. But they don't make any road cars to reflect the race car's styling from - which ACO are aiming for. And that car on the rendering doesn't meet the 2010 regulations as I've understood them.

"We have been evaluating the coupe version of our prototype for some time now and are confident that it will be a very interesting project for existing customers and potential customers.
We are spending more wind tunnel time in the near future and pushing ahead with developments as we have already had a few enquiries relating to a closed top version of the existing LMP1. It is obvious that the ACO are aiming to attract more manufacturers to Le Mans in the future and we will be ready to offer a package that has been exhaustively tested and developed." - Julian Cooper, Lola's head of engineering.

"Potiential costumers" might mean that it would be possible for road car manufacturers to buy a Lola car and use it under their own name. E.g a Nissan P1, built by Lola, run by the factory. They did that in good old days (Group C era). Otherwise the car would be quite pointles.

Surely having the Le Mans cars having road car syling is a good thing for the manufacturers, creating a visual link between race and road cars. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday.

^Yeah but when you have the name and the badge written all over any way its pretty easy to amke the link.
Like with Audi they should change the R10 to be called the A10 or some thing to make it seem closer.
Even with the new regulations wouldn't Audis gaint grill make a loop hole for getting more air in to the engine or better cooling.
Because I don't think Audi really want to make a race car that looks like a curvey box.

There are regulatios for that. The first one is from 2001 and the second one is from 2004, but I don't think they have changed much today. From what I've understood, they are just as (if not even more so) strict about inlet air restrictors in order to get equal power. The only loop hole so far is the air conditioning-trick I explained in a thread in Technical. But it doesn't work on closed top cars since the regulations mandate that they must run with air conditioning.
The engine air intake system must be fitted with one or two air restrictors 3 mm long with maximum diameters set out
in Appendix 1.
All the air feeding the engine must pass through these restrictors, which must be made of metal or metal alloy.
The right is reserved, by the Sporting Authority of the relevant Championship, to adjust the size of these air
restrictors to maximise equality of performance.
Inlet manifolds must be fitted with air restrictors made of metal or metal alloy the diameter of which must beminimum 3 mm in length (Appendix 1 below).
5.2 - Turbocharged engines:
5.2.1 - Air restrictors location : a one piece and airtight right cone must be fitted between the restrictor(s) and the inlet diameter of the charging device : a/ The cone must have a mandatory opening of 7° minimum ; b/ To each base of the cone, over 10 mm maximum in length, a round shape is permitted within the diameter ofboth the restrictor(s) and the charging device inlet.

There aren't much, if any, difference from 2001-2004. The regulations from 2004 have just been more impossible to understand.

I don't think Audi would go that far and put a Single Frame grill on their 2010 closed top car. However, BMW had the traditional kidney shaped grills from their road cars on their 1999 BMW V12 LMR (http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6088/1999bmwv12lmr2wd.jpg), but I don't know whether they were functional or not. And it would be a different case for Audi because of the size of their typical road car grill.
The manufacturers don't have to use that many details from road cars as long as they have a good looking car - which a closed top car usually is. GTP's are a kick-ass marketing strategy, even without any visual connection to the manufacturer... at least it works on me.