http://www.motorpasion.com/archivos/2006/07/14-bmw-con-una-par-de-narices.php#more

well now that you saw the pictures...what do you think?

what does it say and what do those do? It looks akward but i'm sure it is very effective

It does not say much about anything really just that they are made to help the car handle higher speed turns, or not let the driver see what he is doing.

Reduces drag, makes less downforce in fast straights or turns, and makes more downforce in slow corners, and cooper s, no it does not reduce visibility in the car.

It seems to be working, because Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber's test driver topped the timesheets for both practice sessions in the French GP practices.
Here's an article on those 'radical' wings:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36634

well im workin 2day and 2moro so i will miss it :(

Highlights are on:
Sunday 16 July 2315-0015 ITV1

Tuesday 18 July 0400-0455 ITV4

Catch them if you can.

should be able to get them tomorrow,

Will probably be banned before sunday, just like:
http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg
and
http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/trulli2-lg.jpg

LMAO, look at those ridiculous things!!!

Banned?

Why will they be banned before race day? They're perfectly legal??

They'e using them in the qualifying right now!?!!

Bah. If those things are meant to to create vortices then they won't work, at all. If they do work, then the world of motorsport are going into a future of uglyness and dangerous moments.

Well, they have a car with interesting aerodynamics, but it won't help them if the engine keeps dying.

God damn.


10 Characters.

LMAO, look at those ridiculous things!!!

Banned?

Why will they be banned before race day? They're perfectly legal??

They'e using them in the qualifying right now!?!!

Safety Issues. According to the FIA, they can turn into lethal weapons in a crash.
But it seems they aren't going to ban them, normally they are banned right after the first tests

I think it will fall off...
Its for aerodynamic actually...
I heard that F1s can go upside down in a tunnel...
Isit true ?

1st line: This is F1, not backyard stickytape racers.

2nd line: Yep, we know.

3rd & 4th line: Not sure but I am doubting it, I for one would not like to test that theory.

I think it will fall off...
Its for aerodynamic actually...
I heard that F1s can go upside down in a tunnel...
Isit true ?Yeah, in the 70's they could drive upside down in a tunnel, at top speed, because of the massive ground effects. But modern F1 cars don't have ground effects, if I remember it right - At least they don't have as much ground effects.
The Jaguar XJ220 is said to be able to that maneuver too, but I doubt it.

Yeah, in the 70's they could drive upside down in a tunnel, at top speed, because of the massive ground effects. But modern F1 cars don't have ground effects, if I remember it right - At least they don't have as much ground effects.
The Jaguar XJ220 is said to be able to that maneuver too, but I doubt it.

Modern champ cars can do it, but I don't know the aerodynamic differences between the 2.
Shouldn't anything that can make more than its own weight in downforce be able to stay up?

Safety Issues. According to the FIA, they can turn into lethal weapons in a crash.
But it seems they aren't going to ban them, normally they are banned right after the first tests

Nope, they haven't banned them yet, and they aren't working as BMW hoped they would, because BMW were pretty rubbish in the qualifying of the French GP!

Theoretically, an F1 car can go upside down on the roof of a tunnel because the downforce created is more than the weight of the car. I remember when I read this they really emphasised theoretically though

Edit: Sorry, Lamboandholden basically already said this.

Is there any possibility that you could test this theory somewhere.

yes if u had a million quid and nothing to spend it on, nerves of steel and testicles like tennis balls

Well I bet you there's somebody out there willing to do that.

*Calling all crazy mofos with a million quid, nerves of steel and testicles like tennis balls*

Well I bet you there's somebody out there willing to do that.

*Calling all crazy mofos with a million quid, nerves of steel and testicles like tennis balls*

You called?

lol

You also need a tunnel so that's gonna be hard getting the owners permission! I think though that aerodynamicists will already be able to tell us whether it would work or not just by computer models etc

Edit: Bennyboy, 22.83 posts per day!!!! WOT!!

You called?

lol

You also need a tunnel so that's gonna be hard getting the owners permission! I think though that aerodynamicists will already be able to tell us whether it would work or not just by computer models etc

Edit: Bennyboy, 22.83 posts per day!!!! WOT!!

I'm a postwhore, it's a worldwide truth lol.

I have a lot of spare time, because I don't have much coursework and stuff to do now it's nearing the end of term.

Also, when I joined, I thought people posted this often so I followed suit, but it turned out it wasn't the case, lol.........


As for the tunnel, what about a custom built tunnel because you can't use any old tunnel, because there will be lights and telephone boxes on the sides, etc.

If anyone want to attempt it, it will cos a hell of a lot of money and time and effort to succed.

Yeah, in the 70's they could drive upside down in a tunnel, at top speed, because of the massive ground effects. But modern F1 cars don't have ground effects, if I remember it right - At least they don't have as much ground effects.
The Jaguar XJ220 is said to be able to that maneuver too, but I doubt it.

the XJ220 would look amazing driving upside down. they should have it doing that in a movie.

If they do the job then I don't mind, who said Formula 1 cars were supposed to be pretty anyways

i was thinking mclaren has the wierdest wings this is just something diffrent lol

Wow. This is hilarious. This is why I'm turning to more home-grown motorsports. This is just nuts. I'm sure it helps aerodynamics, but come on. It's not even a car anymore. It's just some crazy thing with four wheels.

Lame.

Wow. This is hilarious. This is why I'm turning to more home-grown motorsports. This is just nuts. I'm sure it helps aerodynamics, but come on. It's not even a car anymore. It's just some crazy thing with four wheels.

Lame.

That's what the FIA are trying to change.

Formula 1 will be changing from 2008, there will be a three year engine freeze, a ban on traction control, standard ECUs, limited testing mileage, bans on tyre warmers and other changes and rules are going to take place.

This is all to make F1 more friendly to little independent teams, but dramatically reducting costs, and making the Formula 1 cars a lot more relevant to road cars.

That's what the FIA are trying to change.

Formula 1 will be changing from 2008, there will be a three year engine freeze, a ban on traction control, standard ECUs, limited testing mileage, bans on tyre warmers and other changes and rules are going to take place.

This is all to make F1 more friendly to little independent teams, but dramatically reducting costs, and making the Formula 1 cars a lot more relevant to road cars.
I understand the point of the standard ecu and the traction control but why to ban tyre warmers? That's something every team has and in some sence is also a security measure, with warmed tyres you have more grip and therefore you have less chances of crashing into a wall at high speed.

PS: the ECU's are gonna be provided or programmed by Microsoft so they say the new steering wheels are gonna include 3 new bottons: CTRL, ALT and DEL. hehe

@NV85, I think (although I'm not entirely sure) that the ban on tyre warmers is to make the cars powerslide a little bit more, to add some more interest from the fans and make racing more exciting to everyone, because the tyre warmers make the tyres trap the heat (duh) so they stick to the ground and they don't slide about, but with no tyre warmers the tyres won't be as sticky so the cars have more freedom and can slide around a little more.

As for the ECU's, nice little pun with the three buttons, quite funny lol:p

I understand the point of the standard ecu and the traction control but why to ban tyre warmers? That's something every team has and in some sence is also a security measure, with warmed tyres you have more grip and therefore you have less chances of crashing into a wall at high speed.

PS: the ECU's are gonna be provided or programmed by Microsoft so they say the new steering wheels are gonna include 3 new bottons: CTRL, ALT and DEL. hehe

:smt046:smt043
That is sig worthy.

I think making them base the cars off an excisting road car would be intrasting.

So, the FIA banned the vertical wings from BMW.

From F1.com:

BMW Sauber are expected to drop their unusual nose fins ahead of this weekend’s German Grand Prix after Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, expressed concerns over the safety of such devices.

The two fins - around 40cm high and mounted on the F1.06’s nosecone immediately above the front suspension - are designed to improve airflow to the rear of the car. They were tested by the team ahead of the last round in France and then raced at Magny-Cours after successfully passing scrutineering.

The innovative design immediately prompted questions concerning its effect on driver visibility and, with the prospect of other constructors introducing similar designs, the FIA has contacted the teams to inform them that any bodywork which may interfere with a driver’s vision will not be permitted.

So you were right in the end......I personally didn't think that they would get banned, but there you go, they were......

Do you know if the McLaren-like horns on the car above the driver's head are banned or not, or is it just the fins on the nosecone?

I think only the nosecone vertical wings are banned, because the main reason they were banned is the fact that they could block the visibility of the drivers. The 'bullhorns' from McLaren don't do that.

BTW, I'm always right =P

Oh OK, but didn't the drivers claim that on the test before the French GP that their vision wasn't impaired?

Didn't the FIA take the drivers' point of view into account?

Oh OK, but didn't the drivers claim that on the test before the French GP that their vision wasn't impaired?

Didn't the FIA take the drivers' point of view into account?

Well BMW could be making them say that.

Might be, but I would tell the truth to the FIA if I was a BMW Sauber driver, I wouldn't put my visibility and my safety at risk just because my team told me to and my car would perform better.

So, the FIA banned the vertical wings from BMW.

From F1.com:

BMW Sauber are expected to drop their unusual nose fins ahead of this weekend’s German Grand Prix after Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, expressed concerns over the safety of such devices.

The two fins - around 40cm high and mounted on the F1.06’s nosecone immediately above the front suspension - are designed to improve airflow to the rear of the car. They were tested by the team ahead of the last round in France and then raced at Magny-Cours after successfully passing scrutineering.

The innovative design immediately prompted questions concerning its effect on driver visibility and, with the prospect of other constructors introducing similar designs, the FIA has contacted the teams to inform them that any bodywork which may interfere with a driver’s vision will not be permitted.

Cool. For first time in years they are using their lame excuses the right way. Those fins would have been the top of an iceberg of ugliness and overkill aerodynamics. But FIA wanna freeze the engine development for the next couple of years before they turn Formula 1 into an economy run, so I guess the manufacturers have nothing better to do than experimenting with supersonic aerodynamics, LOL.

The drivers dont care about visibility, they only want the car to go faster.

More info:

Jul.25 (GMM) F1's governing body has banned the so-nicknamed 'twin towers' because they impede the vision of BMW-Sauber race drivers. Just as rival teams began to investigate copying the bodywork innovation, which passed scrutineering and debuted at Magny Cours, the FIA says it falls foul of Article 2.3 of the Technical Regulations, which relates to features that could compromise safety. Concerns in the paddock had also been raised about the questionable aesthetic effect of the vertical fins, which were designed to better distribute rearward-bound air. A recent advisory note to all teams, written by the FIA's Charlie Whiting, warns that front bodywork should no longer be fitted higher than the top of the cockpit, it was reportedly widely on Tuesday. ''We respect the FIA's decision to ban such elements,'' a BMW-Sauber statement read, adding that the FIA had been consulted even before the wings were tested.

Article 2.3 contains this:
2.3 Dangerous construction :
The stewards of the meeting may exclude a vehicle whose construction is deemed to be dangerous.

So, if the stewards thought it was dangerous, then they dont need to ask the drivers if they think it might be dangerous. They can just ban it


Maybe something interesting for you guys:
http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1603301296__2006_F1_TECHNICAL_REGULATION S.pdf

Cool. For first time in years they are using their lame excuses the right way. Those fins would have been the top of an iceberg of ugliness and overkill aerodynamics. But FIA wanna freeze the engine development for the next couple of years before they turn Formula 1 into an economy run, so I guess the manufacturers have nothing better to do than experimenting with supersonic aerodynamics, LOL.

I hate Max Mosley so much:mad::mad::mad:

His stupid ''green agenda'' for F1 totally sucks.

F1 isn't about being green, it's about screaming high revving engines, high octane racing, not about whizzing around in a stupid electric car that's powered by mouldy tea leaves and obeys the local speed limits.

Even Damon Hill's backing this ''green agenda''. What's happening to everybody? I bet you deep down Hill knows this GA is a load of tripe, he's just saying he agrees with it to make himself look good and to get on the right side of Max Mosley. Deep down he knows Mosley is wrong, it's just he's afraid to admit it.

As for this stupid engine freeze, it's making F1 look like a little girls sport. The cornering speeds are so high nowadays in F1 the brake pedal gets rusty going around Silverstone. Hell, they should have removed the brake mechanism for that race to save weight! It's all because of these stupid V8 engines. Bring back the V10s I say, they were powerful and sorted the men from the boys, these V8s could be driven by Theo Walcott, who has a provisional driving license.

I wish Mosley retired years back. He's turning F1 into what he wants it to be, not what everyone else wants it to be. He's runing everything. He's not letting the manufacturers show their true technological potential, he's backing everything up and making it all green. Right now it's turning a rather nasty shade of brown.

Get off your throne, Mosley, you're ruining the sport that everyone loves. You're so green you could give Ken Livingstone a run for his money.

I hate Max Mosley so much:mad::mad::mad:

His stupid ''green agenda'' for F1 totally sucks.

F1 isn't about being green, it's about screaming high revving engines, high octane racing, not about whizzing around in a stupid electric car that's powered by mouldy tea leaves and obeys the local speed limits.

I think the same way you do about F1 and those stupid restrictions, but did you know that there are plans to make Hybrid F1 cars by 2009?

I think it's gonna be cool. But then again, I'm more into endurance racing and all that comes with it.

VW will probably be engine supplier for Red Bull at that time, and VW owns Audi, so there might be diesel engines and all kind of stuff for 2011.

I think it's gonna be cool. But then again, I'm more into endurance racing and all that comes with it.

VW will probably be engine supplier for Red Bull at that time, and VW owns Audi, so there might be diesel engines and all kind of stuff for 2011.
Diesel F1 cars? will those have a smaller fuel tank also like on Le Mans cars?

I heard that F1s can go upside down in a tunnel...
Isit true ?

I wouldnt doubt it. the Saleen S7TT was proved to have to have enough downforce to do it also....

Now I dont know much of the rules of the F1 cars, but why if they wanted the most aerodynamic shape, even if it was just for qualifing, why wouldnt they put a cockpit style bubble over the driver? I would think that that would certainly be more aerodynamic than the air just going over the drivers helmet.

Diesel F1 cars? will those have a smaller fuel tank also like on Le Mans cars?I don't know. I don't know if it even is going to happen, or if it would be possible. I just heard all that talk about F1 were going to be based on fuel-effciency rather than engine capicity. Then I heard that VW were working together with Red Bull in WRC, Rally-raid, and touring car championships, so they might extend their partnership all the way to Formula 1.

If F1 goes green I'm gonna stop watching it.
I think its fine for endurance racing to do things like hybrids and diesles but not F1, its just wrong. F1 is about (imo) high revving light weight low dispalcment cars, not dumbasses who want to make every thing so enviromental, like 22 cars driving for 10-11 hours a week is going to make a difference, its the millions of cars stuck in traffic jams, the thousands of cars in 3rd world countries where the owners don't have enough money to fix the cats if they break, or even have cats in the first place.
Anyway teh world is going into an ice age then a warm age wheather we like it or not, why not have some fun and save some money while we wait.

I think the same way you do about F1 and those stupid restrictions, but did you know that there are plans to make Hybrid F1 cars by 2009?

Yeah, I did know that there were plans to make hybrid cars........and it's the worst idea I've ever heard of. It's all a load of BS, Max Mosley's living in fairyland, as I've said before, he's doing what he wants for F1, not everybody else. He's a self centered little b*stard. Yes, some people may agree that all this fuel burning is harming the environment, but people who want the fuel burning to stop are stupid tree huggers who have no passion for F1 whatsoever. They care more about cycling to work and not using deoderant because it'll harm the Ozone layer.



If F1 goes green I'm gonna stop watching it.
I think its fine for endurance racing to do things like hybrids and diesles but not F1, its just wrong. F1 is about (imo) high revving light weight low dispalcment cars, not dumbasses who want to make every thing so enviromental, like 22 cars driving for 10-11 hours a week is going to make a difference, its the millions of cars stuck in traffic jams, the thousands of cars in 3rd world countries where the owners don't have enough money to fix the cats if they break, or even have cats in the first place.
Anyway teh world is going into an ice age then a warm age wheather we like it or not, why not have some fun and save some money while we wait.

I'm going to stop watching it too, and so will the fans, the TV companies won't want to broadcast it anymore and F1 will be no more. You're totally right, the worls will have another ice age, so yes, let's make the most of what we have nw, there's absolutely no point sitting on our arses worrying about what's going to happen in 100 years time, because we won't be around then! All this stupid ''green agenda'' work will go down the pan when the next ice age arrives, and all these people will be scratching their heads, regretting that they spent hundred of millions of euros on work on those Hybrid F1 cars, when all the money could have been spent on something else in the past, instead it's all been wasted and not put to good use.

All these cost cutting measures right now are designed to keep the small teams in F1. What a load of rubbish. There are people we don't need in F1 like SUper Aguri who get lapped as many times as how many laps there are in the race distance. They may want to stay in F1, but a lot of other people don't. Here they come, all the small teams, thinking they're gonna make it big in F1.....and then they get a shock because they haven't got a hope in hell. Go to a series where you are front runners and you are competitive. You can't cut it with the big guns. It's people like Max Mosley and certain teams that are ruining F1 for all of us.

http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/9827/dewarrior8zc.jpg

http://www.motorpasion.com/archivos/images/bmw-nose-wings-4.jpg

compare.

I think that if this continues al ricers i the world will be envious of formula one cars and we will see a lot of interesting 'road going conversions if this high tech shizzle'

meh...

formula 1 went belly up after the 90's

Dude what's the link at the top of your post got to do with F1......:|:|:|

It reminds me of the way the bimmer looks.

Haha it does look a bit like it, yes, maybe you should send that to BMW Sauber and perhaps they'll consider painting their car brown and green with some more aerodynamic aids like that gun/sword weapon the creature is holding.....now maybe that will spice up F1 won't it?

But then again, Max Mosley will ban it because the car doesn't have enough green on it so maybe there's no point, but you can't blame a man for trying......

I might do so indeed.
Can't really be interested in this whole F1 circus anymore.

Maybe I really have to sit down for a race again to have it catch my enthousiasm but it's just so different and there are no more legends on the track.

One could argue that Schumacher is a legend, but he doesn't really have the character of Senna....and his ''parking'' incident at Monaco has damaged his reputation quite a fair bit, but I still like ol' Schumi over Alonso though.

If you do decide to sit down at a race, make sure it is at a track with a few overtaking oppurtunitites (Hockenheim this weekend is a possibility) because some tracks like Barcelona, the race just becomes a parade and does become incredulously boring, so be careful what race you choose to watch.

A good race to watch this year was Indianapolis, half the field wiped out on the first lap, good to see Massa giving Schumi a run for his money.....F1 is a great sport, but sometimes it doesn't live up to it, but generally it does.

They are quite...strange but effective. HOw do they think of that??!?

Not entirely sure, BMW Sauber must have needes some aerodynamic improvements, and they also must have needed to clean the air before it gets to the rear wing, so they probably tested a few components and probably thought that the 40cm high fins would clean the air before it met the rear wing.

they watched flipper for inspiration.

thnx for the tip though. I do remember Gerhard Bergher calling Hockenheim "just the n'th mickey mouse style racing track" because it mainly consists of straights and a few S bends to beak them up.

Now Suzuka and Brands Hatch as well as Laguna Seca, those would be tracks I would love to see formula one racing cars drive on. The game does need some more agressive driving though. Parade driving is good for teh sponsors but not for the fans.

I agree, although the Corkscrew on Laguna Seca would take one hell of a set up for an F1 car to manage it, what with the change of camber; the cars' ride height would have to be significantly increased.
As for Suzuka, it was an F1 track up until last year, now the Japanese GP will be held in Fiji, but Bernie Ecclestone wants there to be a 'Pacific GP' with Suzuka as the track (it's the only figure of eight track that used to remain on the F1 calendar).
Yes, aggressive driving is what we need, not smooth, flowing driving into corners. Agressive driving is fun to watch and most probably fun to perform, and the FIA is trying to get cars to ''powerslide'' more around bends in the near future.
As for Brands Hatch, it's a damn sight better than the current British GP in Silverstone. Bring back Aintree or Brands, I'm getting a tad tired of Silverstone.

^To right, Silverstone is so flat and characterless whereas Brands is amazing. The sounds reverbarates of the rolling hills and the camber of first corner makes for really intersting racing. Sadly Brands doesn't have the seating capacity but for club races and the like its brilliant.

Yeah, like the BTCC races I always watch at Brands, they're really special. I have got to go and see a race there sometime in my life, it sounds amazing.

Also, I've just found an article saying that BMW Sauber driver, Nick Heidfeld didn't find the wings on the nosecone of his car intrusive to his vision, even though they were banned:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36785

My advise is to go to a smaller club car championship. You get a really wide variety of cars and generally great racing action. Also with smaller championships the track and paddock are a lot more open and people don't mind you taking photos (I went to a club car championship stage at Brands recently and took tons photos, theres a selection in a thread in the general section). Also the fact that there are less people there means its easy to find a great viewing place (Druids hairpin infield anyone???). http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/brands-hatch/index.asp is the official ticket selling site and they have a calendar of all the events on.

*Vague attempt to be ontopic* I'm not suprised that they got banned, on the TV coverage they showed them from a drivers perspective and they were fine for looking straight ahead but they created huge blindspots.

Wow, thanks for the site info, cheap prices online, hopefully I will be able to go over there some time to watch racing, and as you say smaller championships are more open to the public and aren't as paradnoid as bigger champiosnhips when it comes to taking photographs.

Darn, Cardiff is a good place to live but if I still lived in Kent like I did when I was a kid, I would have seen tons of races by now:(:(

dam, I forgot you lived in Wales. Being in West Sussex means Brands is just roughly a 1hr motorway journey away. I don't know where the nearest major circuit is to you.

Edit - Oulton Park looks like it might be nearer to you but Brands is more major...

Aww lucky you lol. There's a go karting track which is a few miles away from where I live so that's quite accessible and useful and I hope to be going there in a few days, but there aren't any major tracks near me, there aren't many decent tracks that have a pit, paddock and hold international/nation racing series, the only high end motorsport series which I can easily access is the Wales Rally GB, which is basically on my doorstep, I've been going there for the past few years, it's fantastic.

I hope to be going to Silverstone GP in a few years time, but it's going to be a weekend trip, book into a few hotels, because going to Northamptonshire isn't just a day trip, but there's no big international tracks where I live which is annoying.