With Renault's mass damper system banned, now's the time for Ferrari to capitolize!

Is anybody here going to watch the Turkish GP this weekend, off the back of JB's wonderful win at Hungary:)

Title fight will be more interesting now the gap is down to 10 points, the equivalent of a race win!

Turkish GP on ITV

Live qualifying: Saturday 26 August 1130-1315 ITV1

Live race: Sunday 27 August 1205-1500 ITV1

Highlights: Sunday 27 August 2315-0015 ITV1

Highlights: Tuesday 29 August 0340-0430 ITV4

Here's the Friday test practice's combined results:

1. VETTEL BMW 1m28.091s
2. MASSA Ferrari 1m28.164s
3. RAIKKONEN McLaren 1m28.315s
4. BUTTON Honda 1m28.506s
5. DAVIDSON Honda 1m28.598s
6. R SCHUMACHER Toyota 1m28.614s
7. M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari 1m28.777s
8. DOORNBOS Red Bull 1m28.848s
9. WURZ Williams 1m28.959s
10. DE LA ROSA Mclaren 1m29.112s
11. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m29.214s
12. MONDINI Midland 1m29.719s
13. ALONSO Renault 1m29.741s
14. HEIDFELD BMW 1m29.780s
15. JANI Toro Rosso 1m29.858s
16. SPEED Toro Rosso 1m29.890s
17. TRULLI Toyota 1m30.006s
18. MONTAGNY Super Aguri 1m30.491s
19. KUBICA BMW 1m30.502s
20. FISICHELLA Renault 1m30.504s
21. LIUZZI Toro Rosso 1m30.551s
22. WEBBER Williams 1m30.775s
23. KLIEN Red Bull 1m30.889s
24. ROSBERG Williams 1m31.015s
25. SATO Super Aguri 1m31.091s
26. YAMAMOTO Super Aguri 1m31.316s
27. ALBERS Midland 1m31.475s
28. MONTEIRO Midland 1m31.519s
29. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m31.540s

It was also the dream start for Sebestien Vettel, BMW's brand new Friday man!

^^the Renault is well down :( stupid mass dampers :@
I think that...well lets see what happens...I should be able too watch it. I'm away tomorrow at a posh hotel and then a second party on Sunday, so, I don't know lol

Catch the highlights, Sunday at 11:25pm, I think.

hey , in the page were i downlodad the torrents for the F1 i cant find the turkish Gp , where can i donwload it.. or is it not eaven ready to download?

No, because the race hasn't even taken place yet! lol

The qualifying should be ready to download in a few days because the qualifying takes place tomorrow.

its not the mass damper.. they are probably just testing the set up with old tyres so that other teams like ferrari have more empty confidence. oh well, God and therenault team are the ones who really know and thats about it

i wish i lived in the UK.. or at least in europe. F1 everywhere, you can watch at least the DTM highlights... oh well better keep sticking to my beautiful caribbean

Hah lol sorry since I don’t know allot about when they are , I got confused , y though that the list was the winners , and that the date was the repetition , sorry , I think Alonso should shine on this …. Or maybe not …


EDIT
I’m a bit new to F1, so that banned damper system what is it , what made Alonso so fast in wet the last race?...or what is it.?

Well, in a nutshell, Alonso had a two second penalty in the qualifying sessions of the Hungarian GP so he started in 15th, which meant that he could choose whatever fuel strategy he liked, and we all know that more fuel = longer runs = generally, more pace once your fuel level goes down and you can pull away, and, along with this big fuel load and a number of fine overtaking maouveres, Alonso was able to wrestle himself infront of other drivers, leapfrog people at pit stops and get to the front of the grid until he retired.

Now, Renault will be hurt because of these mass dampers. A mass damper is a little spring which is mounted inside the nose of an f1 car. When the car moves up and over bumps, this little mass damper moves up and down and somehow settles the car down, thus reducing the amount of time that the wheels are boucing around and it keeps the tyres on the tarmac sooner than without a mass damper, thus meaning earlier power delivery and less bouncing of the car, and this system is worth around three tenths of a second a lap, which is quite a lot in Formula 1.

Now that the mass damper has been banned for good, this will hurt Renault. They've been using the mass damper since Brazil 2005, and Renault designed their 2006 car around this mass damper, and, now that it's been banned, it means that they have to modify their car to cope without the mass damper, thus allowing their main title challengers Ferrari to capitolize on the Renault being slower because of the mass damper being banned. it will hurt Renault, but Pat Symonds (Technical Director of Renault) insists that in two weeks time Renault will be back on the pace even without the mass damper, but I believe that a bit of confidence has been sucked out of Renault because of the FIAs decision to ban the mass damper.

i cant wait. my friend is gonna be there and taking pics :D

BTW. Massa got his First Pole Position =O and ahead of Schumacher

Just finished watching it..WOW.. I couldn't even watch the last few laps..Schumi & Alonso..so close..but you know, the best man wins :)
Great drive from Rosberg & Kubica, really loving both their styles... :)
And fabulous racing from Massa!
Overall, good race for a lot of people, Button & de la Rosa included
**Update Later**

just finish watchin now 2 lol......i really enjoyed it , Fellippe Massa did a great job , i didnt see him make any mistakes, and he had a good start.....and wut a fight between Schumi and Alonso, they were really damn close, specially at the last corner, Alonso won by only a half car over Schumi (the gap was 0.1s between these 2 wow), it was a really good fight, but after all i m really glad for Massa, and it is his first win in F1, he deserve to win this race, as he showed us yesterday he was very fast and he was 1st in Pole.......so congartulaions, and again Brazilian drivers r very emotional !

BTW, i was mad at first coz Kimi was out .......

WOW! What an absolute cracker!

I'm absolutely delighted for Massa on his first F1 win, disappointed for Kimi, he's got a bit of bad luck on his side, but my heart was in my chest over the last few laps between Alonso and Schumacher, if the finish line was any further forwards I reckon Schumacher would have pipped Alonso at the post.....it was an excellent race for Button aswell, playing best of the rest after the Ferraris and Alonso, nice driving from Barrichello, Kubica and Webber aswell, they were enjoying some scraps, weren't they.

If Schumacher hadn't made that mistake in qualifying, I think Michael would have won the race, and I think this race may decide the World Championship!

I'm so pissed at myself right now. I went to sleep during the second add break and then woke up with 12 laps to go. And this was the first race of the season I didn't tape.
So now I have a few questions

1. What was wrong with Alonso's tires?
2. During the race did they find out anything else about Kimi's crash?

1. Alonso's rear tyres were blistering, which meant that he had oversteer and couldn't out the power down as early out of corners as he would have liked, which meant that Schumacher could catch up in the twisty sections, but Schumacher had the opposite, a bit of blistering on his front tyres, which meant understeer, so Alonso could pull away in the faster sections, like the run down to Turn 12 and the fast Turn 8.

2. I think Kimi got caught up in the start. I think he missed most of the action down at the first corner, but then Scott Speed in a Toro Rosso locked up and punted Raikkonen's rear and punctured his rear tyre, causing him to spin. The carcass of the tyre was flailing around, and damaging some of the rear wing, so he pitted, changed the tyre, didn't change the rear wing, but then on his outlap, made a mistake at Turn 8, ran wide onto the apron, onto the gravel and smacked into the wall.

1. Alonso's rear tyres were blistering, which meant that he had oversteer and couldn't out the power down as early out of corners as he would have liked, which meant that Schumacher could catch up in the twisty sections, but Schumacher had the opposite, a bit of blistering on his front tyres, which meant understeer, so Alonso could pull away in the faster sections, like the run down to Turn 12 and the fast Turn 8.

2. I think Kimi got caught up in the start. I think he missed most of the action down at the first corner, but then Scott Speed in a Toro Rosso locked up and punted Raikkonen's rear and punctured his rear tyre, causing him to spin. The carcass of the tyre was flailing around, and damaging some of the rear wing, so he pitted, changed the tyre, didn't change the rear wing, but then on his outlap, made a mistake at Turn 8, ran wide onto the apron, onto the gravel and smacked into the wall.


Thanks, I knew that but I wasn't sure.

Really good exciting finish, exactly like F1 should be all the time.

Yeah, wasn't it.

The last two races have been incredible edge of your seat stuff.

The Hungarian GP had rain, crashed, overtaking, a dream podium and lots of action.

The Turkish GP had a close finish, a maiden winner like in Hungary, overtaking, front runners out, and it's all great stuff.

I hope Monza in two weeks will be the same.

Yeah, it was a shame about Kimi's start, what bad luck that guy has!
As for Alonso's start, marred by Schumacher, what's all this about squeezing the Renaults. Unfair, if you ask me...

Firstly, it was a cracker of a start by Alonso, wasn't it!:) The race would have been even more interesting if he had passed Schumacher and he would have been hunting down Massa, or maybe not because of the ferrari's dominance.

As for him squeezing him out, some may argue that's in unfair yes, but I suppose it's racing. I mean, there's nothing in the rules about blocking an opponent for position (not that I know of!) and if Schumacher didn't deliberately cut across and impede another drive dangerously, then that would probably have contravened the rules.

In the end, I suppose it's just racing, he didn't squeeze him to an extent to where he had no room to even turn a wheel, he gave him racing room and I suppose it was a fair move because he did give him room to pass, and Schumacher did have the racing line.

^^ Yeah, yeah I know, but you know, I'll say anything to give Schumacher a disadvantage ;)
You don't understand, lol I seriously could not watch the last 3 laps, I really wanted Alonso to stay ahead so much! I was screaming at the televison when he kept second. It was for Massa's sake too...

^^ Yeah, yeah I know, but you know, I'll say anything to give Schumacher a disadvantage ;)
You don't understand, lol I seriously could not watch the last 3 laps, I really wanted Alonso to stay ahead so much! I was screaming at the televison when he kept second. It was for Massa's sake too...

I kind of wanted Schumacher to pass Alonso because it would have made the championship battle even more close than it already is!!!

And you're not alone, I scream at the telly all the time, I was shouting my nuts off at the telly when Button won in Hungary:):)

I think I said something like ''oooh, bloody hell!!!!!!'' when Schumacher nearly pipped Alonso at the post, I held my breath for ages and ages and when they crossed the line I let out a long sigh, it was an exhilirating race!

^^ lol
That second changes everything (kinda) well, I mean, that all Alonso has to do now is come second in every race to anyone, and he could comfortably win that championship :)

I also liked the Press Conference when Alonso said something along the lines of 'I kept the line covered in case Schumacher did one of his...ehhh..ummm....errr...manouvres :p

Yeah, and when he said 'manouvres' a cheeky grin appeared on his face.

I think Michael was so p*ssed off playing second fiddle to Alonso that he dedicated his speech to Massa's win, so he didn't have to say anything about his race, which was awful by his standards.

If he did have to say something, it would have been something along the lines of ''Well, to be honest, the race was a load of balls and I hate losing. Losing is for suckers, and today I lost to that stupid Alonso over a measly tenth of a second, which, quite frankly, is utterly ridiculous. I think I should have been given the win because I drove my nuts off and I didn't get anything out of it. I hate F1.''

Anyway, next time it's off to Monza, where I think Ferrari will be quick.

I think that if Schumacher loses the title over a matter of about four points, he'll look back to his error on his flying lap in qualifying in Turkey and his ''awful'' race weekend, by his standards.

^^ Haha, it did as well!

Well you know, you can't be best forever... and I don't suppose you expect to lose to your team mate in the same car either, that's if your Schumacher anyway...

2006 Turkish Grand Prix


Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Points

1 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 58 1:28:51.082 1 10

2 1 Fernando Alonso Renault 58 +5.5 secs 3 8

3 5 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 58 +5.6 secs 2 6

4 12 Jenson Button Honda 58 +12.3 secs 6 5

5 4 Pedro de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes 58 +45.9 secs 11 4

6 2 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 58 +46.5 secs 4 3

7 7 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 58 +59.3 secs 15 2

8 11 Rubens Barrichello Honda 58 +60.0 secs 13 1

9 8 Jarno Trulli Toyota 57 +1 Lap 12

10 9 Mark Webber Williams-Cosworth 57 +1 Lap 9

11 15 Christian Klien RBR-Ferrari 57 +1 Lap 10

12 17 Robert Kubica Sauber-BMW 57 +1 Lap 12

13 21 Scott Speed STR-Cosworth 57 +1 Lap 17

14 16 Nick Heidfeld Sauber-BMW 56 +2 Laps 5

15 14 David Coulthard RBR-Ferrari 55 +3 Laps 16

Ret 19 Christijan Albers MF1-Toyota 46 Accident 22

NC 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 41 +17 Laps 21

Ret 10 Nico Rosberg Williams-Cosworth 25 Water pressure 14

Ret 23 Sakon Yamamoto Super Aguri-Honda 23 Spin 20

Ret 20 Vitantonio Liuzzi STR-Cosworth 12 Spin 18

Ret 3 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1 Accident 7

Ret 18 Tiago Monteiro MF1-Toyota 0 Accident 19

Fastest Lap: Michael Schumacher 1:28.005


This is also quite an intresting pit stop analysis;

2006 Turkish Grand Prix

Stop Count No Driver Team Lap Time Of Day Time Total Pit Time

1 7 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1 15:05:20 26.751 26.751

1 2 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1 15:05:22 37.855 37.855

1 16 Nick Heidfeld Sauber-BMW 1 15:05:36 38.856 38.856

1 21 Scott Speed STR-Cosworth 1 15:05:38 36.449 36.449

1 3 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1 15:06:07 51.901 51.901

1 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1 15:06:09 23:56.582 23:56.582

1 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 14 15:24:32 26.149 26.149

1 5 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 14 15:24:33 37.947 37.947

1 1 Fernando Alonso Renault 14 15:24:43 25.944 25.944

1 12 Jenson Button Honda 14 15:24:48 25.369 25.369

1 9 Mark Webber Williams-Cosworth 14 15:25:05 25.003 25.003

1 17 Robert Kubica Sauber-BMW 14 15:25:12 24.345 24.345

1 19 Christijan Albers MF1-Toyota 14 15:25:28 25.657 25.657

1 23 Sakon Yamamoto Super Aguri-Honda 14 15:25:41 29.096 29.096

1 8 Jarno Trulli Toyota 25 15:43:18 24.920 24.920

1 14 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing 25 15:43:20 27.194 27.194

1 15 Christian Klien Red Bull Racing 26 15:44:46 24.166 24.166

2 16 Nick Heidfeld Sauber-BMW 25 15:45:08 25.145 1:04.001

1 11 Rubens Barrichello Honda 27 15:46:16 24.545 24.545

2 21 Scott Speed STR-Cosworth 27 15:46:33 24.360 1:00.809

1 4 Pedro de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes 30 15:50:41 28.073 28.073

2 2 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 30 15:50:46 29.001 1:06.856

2 7 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 32 15:53:55 26.934 53.685

2 17 Robert Kubica Sauber-BMW 34 15:57:01 26.142 50.487

2 19 Christijan Albers MF1-Toyota 38 16:03:18 35.086 1:00.743

2 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 39 16:03:36 25.091 51.240

2 1 Fernando Alonso Renault 39 16:03:44 25.347 51.291

2 12 Jenson Button Honda 39 16:03:59 25.048 50.417

2 9 Mark Webber Williams-Cosworth 39 16:04:44 26.745 51.748

2 5 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 43 16:09:46 24.602 1:02.549

3 16 Nick Heidfeld Sauber-BMW 41 16:10:01 33.269 1:37.270

2 15 Christian Klien Red Bull Racing 43 16:10:57 23.885 48.051

3 21 Scott Speed STR-Cosworth 43 16:11:03 24.514 1:25.323

2 11 Rubens Barrichello Honda 44 16:12:14 23.248 47.793

2 8 Jarno Trulli Toyota 44 16:12:24 23.864 48.784

2 14 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing 45 16:13:59 23.194 50.388

2 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 31 16:17:23 29.437 24:26.019

I think that just shows the tatical value of F1. Most stops are taken at the same time, yet all of the cars manage to get out (mostly) back in the same track position that they were in, in the first place..

I am really happy because if schumacher was second massa would have have to let schumacher over take him so massa would have come 2nd n schumacher would have come first.
great racing from alonso :).

^^ i dont like that team orders in the Ferrari (i donno if only Ferrari do it ), always letting pass Michael coz he is competing on the championship, well i guess the team is not only schumacher, and the second driver in ferrari is not a servent to Schumaher,:mad: , i got mad sometimes, coz Barichello was a victime too when he was in Ferrari...... we got u JJ, i mean i have the same opinion about letting schumi pass.......coz massa deserved it .

I agree, although you're lucky there's no team orders, then if Schumacher got second, Massa would HAVE to let Schumacher pass. Luckily, team orders were banished when Barrichello had to let Schumacher take a win a few years ago in Austria, or something.

If Schumacher got second yesterday, it would have been up to Massa whether to to take the win or for Schumacher take the win, but if I was in Felipe's position I would have given the win to Michael, otherwise their relationship would have soured quite a bit, and if Michael didn't win the championship, he would blame it on Massa, so the obvious thig to do for Massa would be to yield to Schumacher.

Ferrari have quite a strong relationship with Massa, even when he was with Sauber Petronas, and if I was him and if Schumacher was second, even though it would be a bit disheartening, I would have given Schumacher the win.

^^ but remember it was Massa's first win in his whole carrer in F1.....so its hard to let go ur target and ur dream just to let somebody else win ... really hard, anyway its good that Massa didnt have to take this decision , and his wish has come true...

Team orders have always been 'illegal' in F1. But they've always been around. If Alonso hadn't of held Schumi back, then Schumi would have been taking 10 points, no doubt about it..

It's in Massa's (and Barrichello's) contract, and if you got paid 8 million a year to stay behind your team mate, I think you would..

There's no way, bennyboy, that it would have been Massa's choice, it was crucial for Schumi to win it and Ferrari will do anything in their power to have that happen...

It was in Massa's contract? Apologies, I didn't know that.

I also thought it was Massa's choice because James Allen on ITV's coverage of the race said that if Schumacher got past Alonso, Massa would ''almost certainly'' stamp on the brakes.

And anyway, eight million a year for coming second isn't too bad, is it;)

In the end, it's kinda Schumacher's fault, because he was blisteringly quick in the free practice and he made that mistake in qualifying, but you can't take anything away from Massa, ti was a textbook performance and he fully deserved it.

i think when Schumacher will leave Ferrari , there will be no N# 1 driver in Ferrari, and both drivers will be treated equally ... or i am dreaming ?:p

Nope, it's perfectly true. In fact, if Schumacher decides to carry on this year, and Raikkonen joins him, apparantely there will be no number 1 and number 2 driver, like with Schumacher/Barrichello or Schumacher/Massa.

They'll be free to race eachother, which I think is good because by now, Massa could have won races if his contract said he coudn't overtake Schumacher.

EDIT: Just found out that Spyker may be buying Midland F1??

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37155

It was in Massa's contract? Apologies, I didn't know that.

I also thought it was Massa's choice because James Allen on ITV's coverage of the race said that if Schumacher got past Alonso, Massa would ''almost certainly'' stamp on the brakes.

And anyway, eight million a year for coming second isn't too bad, is it;)

In the end, it's kinda Schumacher's fault, because he was blisteringly quick in the free practice and he made that mistake in qualifying, but you can't take anything away from Massa, ti was a textbook performance and he fully deserved it.
Yes, I believe it's in his contract. no not really. Schumacher should have got past Alonso..but he didn't...
i think when Schumacher will leave Ferrari , there will be no N# 1 driver in Ferrari, and both drivers will be treated equally ... or i am dreaming ?:p

Hmmm....no one really knows...

And, I should think that Raikkonnen will INSIST that he is allowed to race with Shcumacher

I agree, although you're lucky there's no team orders, then if Schumacher got second, Massa would HAVE to let Schumacher pass. Luckily, team orders were banished when Barrichello had to let Schumacher take a win a few years ago in Austria, or something.

If Schumacher got second yesterday, it would have been up to Massa whether to to take the win or for Schumacher take the win, but if I was in Felipe's position I would have given the win to Michael, otherwise their relationship would have soured quite a bit, and if Michael didn't win the championship, he would blame it on Massa, so the obvious thig to do for Massa would be to yield to Schumacher.

Ferrari have quite a strong relationship with Massa, even when he was with Sauber Petronas, and if I was him and if Schumacher was second, even though it would be a bit disheartening, I would have given Schumacher the win.

Team orders have always been 'illegal' in F1. But they've always been around. If Alonso hadn't of held Schumi back, then Schumi would have been taking 10 points, no doubt about it..

It's in Massa's (and Barrichello's) contract, and if you got paid 8 million a year to stay behind your team mate, I think you would..

There's no way, bennyboy, that it would have been Massa's choice, it was crucial for Schumi to win it and Ferrari will do anything in their power to have that happen...

The way I see it is that if you have a chance to win at that point in the race take it. 10 seconds lead with 3-4 laps to go, give me a few months on training could do that (not really) but he could.
He has spent years trying to win, at that point I don't think money would matter that much.
Whats the worse that could happen: You lose your contract with Ferrari. So you could easily get one with Toyota or something and be their NO. 1 driver. You probably wouldn't get paid as much but can you name 1 F1 driver who is in debt or needing to work another job to be well off in life?
Button said he would give up his Monaco lifestyle just for that 1 win and I'm sure almost everyone else who hasn't won yet would do the same.

I agree. But I still think that Massa would have yielded if Schumacher did pass Alonso. There will be plenty of other times in which Massa could win, say next year if Schumacher dominates and has already won the title, Massa could take some wins because Michael wouldn't mind.

If he did take the win and didn't yield to Schumacher and he did take the race win, I don't think he would win for a long time after that. If he loses his Ferrari contract? Who else is going to take him up? You mentioned Toyota, but Jarno's staying there and Ralf probably will aswell. He'll be forced into a testing role or, like Christian Klien, out of the sport. If he did yield, Ferrari have a competitive car so there's more than enough oppurtunities to win again.

^^Uh, but with four more races to go, Massa doesn't want to be out of a job, or with Ferrari

Yeah, but next year is a possibility. Turkey, I think was a big turning point in Schumacher's decision to carry on next year.

If he doesn't, a Massa/Raikkonen combination is possible, and they could be free to race eachother, no team orders, no yielding, unless it's really necessary.

In all honesty, if Schumacher retires at the end of this season then he's being a complete tw*t. Ferrari have the obvious advantage next year because everyone is going to race on Bridgestone tyres, and with Ferrari's knowledge of these Bridgestones, they're going to have an advantage over everyone else.

I'm not really sure if Massa will win again this year, I don't think Schumacher will stand for it, but next year, there's always a possibility.

I agree. But I still think that Massa would have yielded if Schumacher did pass Alonso. There will be plenty of other times in which Massa could win, say next year if Schumacher dominates and has already won the title, Massa could take some wins because Michael wouldn't mind.

If he did take the win and didn't yield to Schumacher and he did take the race win, I don't think he would win for a long time after that. If he loses his Ferrari contract? Who else is going to take him up? You mentioned Toyota, but Jarno's staying there and Ralf probably will aswell. He'll be forced into a testing role or, like Christian Klien, out of the sport. If he did yield, Ferrari have a competitive car so there's more than enough oppurtunities to win again.


SUper Aguri, Torro Roso, Red Bull, Williams, Renult (maybe). I'm sure one of them would take him, none of them currently have 2 "power house" drivers and for some one who has had so much chance at victory already with so much talent I doubt he would be out of work.
And F1 isn't the safest job in the world. What if he crashed the next race and was hurt enough to get him to retire to a deskjob or even killed.
He would be remembered as the one who could have been. I would hate to have that.

@ bennyboy..........i donno why u still insist that Massa should pass Michael , why other driver win races without any help ? why always the other driver in Ferrari must do the benefit of michael ? IMO every driver , drives for himself, to win , to realize a dream ........ and no There will not be plenty of other times in which Massa could win , come on man , he has been 3 seasons in F1 ? and he only won once,
if Michael wins the championship , its okey , but he has to earn the title , okey he is 7 times champ , and he is a very good driver , i know that , but he must be like the other drivers, no help from other team drivers......... donno if u guys got my point

SUper Aguri, Torro Roso, Red Bull, Williams, Renult (maybe). I'm sure one of them would take him, none of them currently have 2 "power house" drivers and for some one who has had so much chance at victory already with so much talent I doubt he would be out of work.
And F1 isn't the safest job in the world. What if he crashed the next race and was hurt enough to get him to retire to a deskjob or even killed.
He would be remembered as the one who could have been. I would hate to have that.

Me too.

I doubt that Massa will have a crash and die in this world of safety-is-paramount F1. Villeneuve smacked the wall at 100mph in Hockenheim. Broken leg? No. A headache. Raikkonen into the wall at 130mph in Turkey. Another broken leg? No. A sore back. I don't think anyone has dided in a long time in F1.

If I was Massa, and I had to go to somewhere like Super Aguri, or Toro Rosso, I would rather test with a team like Toyota because Super Aguri is a MASSIVE step back from Ferrari. He's a bright young lad, I don't think he'll be stupid enough to give up his Ferrari race seat for a ''measly'' race win. I would rather miss the oppurtunity to win once and then win many times again, rather than winning once and never getting the chance to win again.

We, at Elgood Households Limited.. lol reckon that if Schumacher wins the championship, he will stop, if he does not, and misses it by a little, he will continue

It's a bit touch and go, isn't it.

If Schumacher wins the title this year, some say he'll retire, but it's human instinct to say ''oooh, I like that, let's go do it again!''

I think it will take some very strong persuasion for Michael to quite at the end of this year, regardless of whether he wins the title or not. If he doesn't win it, he's going to try and win it again, obviously, c'mon, you guys know Michael. he's a fighter. Doesn't want to come second.

If he does win it this year, by pipping Alonso at the post, I wouldn't be at all surprised, with the advantages that the Bridgestone runners have, by getting Number Nine next year.

IMO he wants to end his career by a 8th championship

Me too.

I doubt that Massa will have a crash and die in this world of safety-is-paramount F1. Villeneuve smacked the wall at 100mph in Hockenheim. Broken leg? No. A headache. Raikkonen into the wall at 130mph in Turkey. Another broken leg? No. A sore back. I don't think anyone has dided in a long time in F1.

If I was Massa, and I had to go to somewhere like Super Aguri, or Toro Rosso, I would rather test with a team like Toyota because Super Aguri is a MASSIVE step back from Ferrari. He's a bright young lad, I don't think he'll be stupid enough to give up his Ferrari race seat for a ''measly'' race win. I would rather miss the oppurtunity to win once and then win many times again, rather than winning once and never getting the chance to win again.

You still never know with things like that.
Say at the end of a straght where you have a sharp turn and have to slow down from 300Kmh. The person in front of you by around a second blows a tire and spins 90 degrees. That would result in someone getting hury very bad.
But I do see where you are coming from. But he may only have to go to S-A for a season untill a space at a better team becomes avaliable.

You still never know with things like that.
Say at the end of a straght where you have a sharp turn and have to slow down from 300Kmh. The person in front of you by around a second blows a tire and spins 90 degrees. That would result in someone getting hury very bad.
But I do see where you are coming from. But he may only have to go to S-A for a season untill a space at a better team becomes avaliable.

I really hope that doesn't happen. Ferrari has shown what a good driver Massa is, but a backmarker team won't.

IMO he wants to end his career by a 8th championship

I see where you're coming from. But if he does quit, I would bet my bottom dollar he'll be regretting it for the rest of his life. Say he sees everyone else on telly, everyone winning, laughing in the conferences, the podiums, the anthems, the champagne....

Say you had a go in an F1 car, and you wanted to get out of it for whatever reason, so you did, and then you saw someone else go out on it, and you're regretting that, seeing someone else have all the fun.

That's what I'm afraid of Schumacher doing, not thinking things through and retiring out of the blue. I hope that doesn't happen, because we won't be having any more crackers of a season like the one we're having now.

Think of the chance it would give other drivers if he left though. Wouldn't he be happy to see others fulfilling their potential as he has been allowed to do....on second thoughts...probably not 8-)

Lol, you're right, probably not.

When Schumacher took his helmet off after the race in Turkey, I expected to see the smile wiped off his face, steam coming out of his ears, his cheeks red and his eyes blazing. Instead, he was smiling.

Sometimes he's a misery guts after a race, but in Turkey he wasn't because he'd had a good ol' battle with his championship rival, which I see as a good thing. I mean, 16 years or however long in F1 and it never ceases to amaze me how much commitment he's put into F1. I don't really see that big grin coming clean off his face any time soon.

I see where you're coming from. But if he does quit, I would bet my bottom dollar he'll be regretting it for the rest of his life. Say he sees everyone else on telly, everyone winning, laughing in the conferences, the podiums, the anthems, the champagne....

Say you had a go in an F1 car, and you wanted to get out of it for whatever reason, so you did, and then you saw someone else go out on it, and you're regretting that, seeing someone else have all the fun.

That's what I'm afraid of Schumacher doing, not thinking things through and retiring out of the blue. I hope that doesn't happen, because we won't be having any more crackers of a season like the one we're having now.

how much money r we talkin about ? :p

and yea he might not like standing and watchin someone else having all the glory , but he broke allmost all the resocrds , he has the glory hehe, but he wont retire until he win his 8th IMO
but when he retires , as Cheeky has just said, other drivers will get the chance to shine more, coz Michael and Ferrari were dominating the world of F1 for the past 6 years, (except maybe last year coz alonso won) but u know wut i mean ....

how much money r we talkin about ? :p

and yea he might not like standing and watchin someone else having all the glory , but he broke allmost all the resocrds , he has the glory hehe, but he wont retire until he win his 8th IMO
but when he retires , as Cheeky has just said, other drivers will get the chance to shine more, coz Michael and Ferrari were dominating the world of F1 for the past 6 years, (except maybe last year coz alonso won) but u know wut i mean ....

Yeah, I suppose it does give other drivers a chance to shine, like Button, Massa, Alonso (as if he hasn't shone already!) and some others, like Kubica, but he's still got at least another two years before he can start to show his real form.

I wonder what Schumacher will do if he retires, Team Principal or something like that? I can't see him sitting at an office desk all day though, racing is in his blood.

I was reading an article on a past champion who retired at Michael's age, and he described it as ''the worst decision he'd ever made in his life''

I hope Michael has read that article because he is an exceptional driver, but with some little hiccups in the past though, and I don't want him to hang up his helmet prematurely, because, you've got to admit, watching Schumacher win is quite blissful.

Nope, it's perfectly true. In fact, if Schumacher decides to carry on this year, and Raikkonen joins him, apparantely there will be no number 1 and number 2 driver, like with Schumacher/Barrichello or Schumacher/Massa.

They'll be free to race eachother, which I think is good because by now, Massa could have won races if his contract said he coudn't overtake Schumacher.

EDIT: Just found out that Spyker may be buying Midland F1??

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37155

I don't think that raikkonen would be team mates with schumacher or schumacher would be pleased if kimi was ,because schumacher does not want not loose to anyone, especially his team mate.

Well, wait two weeks at Monza, when Ferrari announce their drive line up and then we'll see. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Raikkonen did join Ferrari, whether Schumacher likes it or not, he's going to have to deal with it if he does join him.

Apparantely Marlboro have offered an absolutely ridiculous amount of money for a Scumacher/Raikkonen combination, it's like the dream team and will undoubtedly be the strongest driver line-up in F1.

Well, wait two weeks at Monza, when Ferrari announce their drive line up and then we'll see. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Raikkonen did join Ferrari, whether Schumacher likes it or not, he's going to have to deal with it if he does join him.

Apparantely Marlboro have offered an absolutely ridiculous amount of money for a Scumacher/Raikkonen combination, it's like the dream team and will undoubtedly be the strongest driver line-up in F1.

That would be 1-2 finishes every race.
I might even find my self suporting Ferrari as a second team (never MS though).

lol, Who is your first team?
Hopefully, other teams can start to improve enough to give some competition...please :)

As for Raikonnen, I don't like him, I don't why, I don't feel he has that edge someone needs to be a champion

lol, Who is your first team?
Hopefully, other teams can start to improve enough to give some competition...please :)

As for Raikonnen, I don't like him, I don't why, I don't feel he has that edge someone needs to be a champion


Mclaren as my favourite team and Kimi as my favourite driver.
I also want more compition, thats always a good thing in any sport.

Well, wait two weeks at Monza, when Ferrari announce their drive line up and then we'll see. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Raikkonen did join Ferrari, whether Schumacher likes it or not, he's going to have to deal with it if he does join him.

Apparantely Marlboro have offered an absolutely ridiculous amount of money for a Scumacher/Raikkonen combination, it's like the dream team and will undoubtedly be the strongest driver line-up in F1.


I suppose If Raikkonen does join Ferrari for 2007, there will be no number 1 and number 2 drivers- they'll be free to race eachother, which is a good thing, some competition from Michael's teammates!

plus the look on schumacher's face. lol

Yep, they would practically be untouchable.

I kinda do support Ferrari as a second team (Honda being the first!) because I really want to see the title go down to the wire. At the start of the season, I was happy for Alonso, but he just kept winning a bit too much for my liking, but when Schumacher came into the picture, it spiced things up a little bit. The battle is now even more interesting now, what with Massa hungry for more points and Schumacher hungry for a title!

EDIT: @!xLil Angelx! - If Raikkonen does join Ferrari for 2007, there will be no number 1 and number 2 drivers- they'll be free to race eachother, which is a good thing, some competition from Michael's teammates!

Also, yes, I agree that I would like to see more competition from McLaren and Honda, Honda the most because they're my favourite team, but they're getting close, if Kimi hadn't crashed he'd be on for a good result, and with Button playing ''best of the rest'' in Turkey.

Mclaren as my favourite team and Kimi as my favourite driver.
I also want more compition, thats always a good thing in any sport.

and more competition includes..more overtaking. I think the tracks are getting boring and really not helping F1. Is there not a way to improve the over-taking 'allowances'?

and more competition includes..more overtaking. I think the tracks are getting boring and really not helping F1. Is there not a way to improve the over-taking 'allowances'?

That funny thing that smooths out the air behind the cars.
And making this a track that they use.
http://www.nmd.com.au/images/trackimages/Phillip_Island_official.jpg
I could see turns 1, 4 and 12 being good overtaking points and the area between turns 10 and 11 beacuse turn 10 is right on the peak of a hill.

and more competition includes..more overtaking. I think the tracks are getting boring and really not helping F1. Is there not a way to improve the over-taking 'allowances'?

2008 rule change are trying to do that, changing ECU's tryint to have no traction control.

Of all the races on the calendar, so that's 20 then (for 2005) you can overtake at Hockenheim, Spa Francorchamps, possibly Monaco (got to have balls the size of Jupiter's moons to do that though) Turkey, Suzuka, and sometis Hungary.

It's not a lot, is it, so I think minor modifications are in need, and I think that there should be at least three overtaking oppurtunities at half the tracks, and I mean, most tracks have about 15 corners, making three of them possible to overtake on isn't that hards, is it?

EDIT: @LoH: Yes, I would like to see Phillip Island on the calendar aswell, I quite like the track. I see Turns 4 and 10 being good overtaking spots, the long straight is perfect for slipstreaming into the first corner aswell.

2008 rule change are trying to do that, changing ECU's tryint to have no traction control.

Of all the races on the calendar, so that's 20 then (for 2005) you can overtake at Hockenheim, Spa Francorchamps, possibly Monaco (got to have balls the size of Jupiter's moons to do that though) Turkey, Suzuka, and sometis Hungary.

It's not a lot, is it, so I think minor modifications are in need, and I think that there should be at least three overtaking oppurtunities at half the tracks, and I mean, most tracks have about 15 corners, making three of them possible to overtake on isn't that hard, is it?
No, it probably isn't. It would stop all the overtaking while pitstops are happening too..

Yeah, leapfrogging somebody at the pitstops is satisfying for somebody like a Strategist, but not really for a driver. Overtaking on track is satisfying for a driver, and that's ultimately what counts in the long run.

Alonso has overtaken Michael once in fourteen races, and all the other passes have taken place at the pits, which, let's be honest, is not very exciting. Slipstreaming down pit straights in cars which are all about the driver, and around the outside of 150mph bends IS. That's what we need more in F1.

They're getting easier and easier to drive. I mean, come on, Sebastien Vettel, a nineteen year old, topping timesheets? Not good.

Yeah, leapfrogging somebody at the pitstops is satisfying for somebody like a Strategist, but not really for a driver. Overtaking on track is satisfying for a driver, and that's ultimately what counts in the long run.

Alonso has overtaken Michael once in fourteen races, and all the other passes have taken place at the pits, which, let's be honest, is not very exciting. Slipstreaming down pit straights in cars which are all about the driver, and around the outside of 150mph bends IS. That's what we need more in F1.

They're getting easier and easier to drive. I mean, come on, Sebastien Vettel, a nineteen year old, topping timesheets? Not good.

Thats why I want Phillip island on the F1 map. Its a traditnoal race area (one of the orignals) and to me looks like a great place for overtaking.
http://www.nmd.com.au/racetracks_detail.cfm?id=6#
I would rather have that as the Australia race (even though it would be more inconvineant for me)

I like the Melbourne race, and I also like the Phillip Island Circuit aswell, I was just going to mention about having two Aussie GP's on the calendar, but we've already got two German GP's and possibly, two Japanese GP's and even more possibly, two American GP's, which would equal about 23 races in total, which is a little bit excessive.

I would like to see the Aussie GP alternating between the two, because Phillip Island undoubtedly is a great circuit, flowing corners, overtaking spots and a long pit straight makes for a great racetrack.

I like the Melbourne race, and I also like the Phillip Island Circuit aswell, I was just going to mention about having two Aussie GP's on the calendar, but we've already got two German GP's and possibly, two Japanese GP's and even more possibly, two American GP's, which would equal about 23 races in total, which is a little bit excessive.

I would like to see the Aussie GP alternating between the two, because Phillip Island undoubtedly is a great circuit, flowing corners, overtaking spots and a long pit straight makes for a great racetrack.

Doing it as a 4 year cylce would be good, Melburne, Mount Panorama, Phillip Island and Adelaide. It would be pretty south eastern Australian baised though.

All of those racetracks will be good, especially Phillip Island and Adelaide, because all Adelaide needs is a lick of paint and it'll be top notch, because they know how to host grand prix's, and so does PI because that hosted the 1989 Motorcyle Grand Prix.

Bathurst would be good because it's got elevation changes, overtaking, long straights, but Melbourne is doing a fantastic job right now and it will take a lot of persuausion to change Mr. Ecclestone's decision over the Australian GP.

All of those racetracks will be good, especially Phillip Island and Adelaide, because all Adelaide needs is a lick of paint and it'll be top notch, because they know how to host grand prix's, and so does PI because that hosted the 1989 Motorcyle Grand Prix.

Bathurst would be good because it's got elevation changes, overtaking, long straights, but Melbourne is doing a fantastic job right now and it will take a lot of persuausion to change Mr. Ecclestone's decision over the Australian GP.

The only reason I would have Melbourne over Bathurst and Phillip Island is that its close by and ll the hotels and stuff around. But then again every second house on Phillip island is for rent. With a few Hotels and motels but no big airport. I'v never been to Mount Panarama so I don't know. But it is the big race in V8's.

Yeah, the V8s do use it.

But wouldn't the Conrad straight in Bathurst be too bumpy, the cars might bottom out on it?

Alonso and Schumi down the Conrad straight would be fantastic though:D

Yeah, the V8s do use it.

But wouldn't the Conrad straight in Bathurst be too bumpy, the cars might bottom out on it?

Alonso and Schumi down the Conrad straight would be fantastic though:D
I would guess it would be the longest straight in F1. It could be but that would just be another chanllenge for them to deal with.
It would be intrasting to see multiple F1 cars get air born along here. Probably could because the teams would reduce down force to make use of the starights.
http://www.nzmustang.com/Bathurst/Bathurst18.JPG
Coming would probably be a fair bit over 100kmh so that could result in some massive speeds by of the Caltex Chase.http://www.nmd.com.au/images/trackimages/bathurst_official.jpg

I'm not so sure they'd get airbourne, because even with minimum downforce, F1 cars at those speeds are creating a bit of downforce as it is. Even if they did, it would damage the undertray a fair bit.

If Bathurst was on the calendar, it would be a physically, mentally and car-relatedly challenging event. The Conrod straight would put stress on engines, transmissions and the braking points would put stress on tyres, brakes and even the drivers.

It would be even hotter than the sweltering temperatures of Turkey, Bahrain and Malaysia aswell, but nevertheless, a great event.

I'm not so sure they'd get airbourne, because even with minimum downforce, F1 cars at those speeds are creating a bit of downforce as it is. Even if they did, it would damage the undertray a fair bit.

If Bathurst was on the calendar, it would be a physically, mentally and car-relatedly challenging event. The Conrod straight would put stress on engines, transmissions and the braking points would put stress on tyres, brakes and even the drivers.

It would be even hotter than the sweltering temperatures of Turkey, Bahrain and Malaysia aswell, but nevertheless, a great event.

If its held in winter it would get pretty cold. The V8s are held in Spring and it was very cold for this one guy (I forgot his name again) had both his front and rear windscreens tacken out and it started raining.

But what wrong with a bit of a challenge for the teams. From the driver perspective it would still be much easier than taking a 1930's car around there. Or a 1930's bike.
It probably won't happen but it never hurts to dream.

Yeah, it probably won't happen, as I've said before, Melbourne is attracting big crowds and the race is doing fine.

Anyway, if it does happen, it probably won't happen before 2008, anyway, because most of the circuits have been signed for 2007-2008 but if Indy doesn't resign for 2008 then there might be a slot for Bathurst.

We'll never really know what a 2006 F1 car will be like around there because of drivers, teams and track businesses, etc but we may find out what one does around there in the future.

Yeah, it probably won't happen, as I've said before, Melbourne is attracting big crowds and the race is doing fine.

Anyway, if it does happen, it probably won't happen before 2008, anyway, because most of the circuits have been signed for 2007-2008 but if Indy doesn't resign for 2008 then there might be a slot for Bathurst.

We'll never really know what a 2006 F1 car will be like around there because of drivers, teams and track businesses, etc but we may find out what one does around there in the future.

It would probably do to Vegas or something like that.
One of the best things about Melbourne is my old school is less than a Kilometer away from the track. So we get some great back gorund noise from the F1s, V8s and 911s.
I can here them from home about 6 kilometers away as well.

Wow, that must have really interrupted your concentration in lessons, eh;)

Bathurst has overtaking oppurtunities aswell, which is in a dire state in F1 at the moment.

Races like Turkey, Hockenheim generally tend to be more exciting than ones like Imola, because you cannot overtake there.

Alonso would have won in Imola but you can't overtake.

Schumacher would have overtaken Alonso in Turkey, but he was too slow;)

Wow, that must have really interrupted your concentration in lessons, eh;)

Bathurst has overtaking oppurtunities aswell, which is in a dire state in F1 at the moment.

Races like Turkey, Hockenheim generally tend to be more exciting than ones like Imola, because you cannot overtake there.

Alonso would have won in Imola but you can't overtake.

Schumacher would have overtaken Alonso in Turkey, but he was too slow;)

Good point. Plus its already got enough pitstop space for around 15 teams with 2 drivers on each team.

It would be a great race to watch as well in terms of come from behind victories if cars are going out all the time.
Look at the German GP 2 races ago when everybody crashed or broke.

So that's thirty pit spaces.....well, that will please Mr. Green - oh, Mr. Mosley because he wants 26 cars on the F1 grid in future races, and he wants more races, so Bathurst has the facilities to accomodate all those cars.

A lick of paint or whatever and it could be a good candidate for an addotional race to the calendar.

I agree about ''unexpected'' race victories in F1, I think Massa and Button were a breath of fresh air from Schumacher and Alonso (Fisichella win in Malaysia aswell). It's like in football, you can't have all the forwards scoring all the goals, there's got to be some defenders in there aswell, there's got to be variety.

How about a Red Bull or a Toro Rosso on a strong day, Alonso tries to slipstream Schumacher down the end of Conrod, Schumacher brakes early defends the line, shunts in the back, wheel comes off for Alonso and rear wing and gearbox damaged for Schumacher and an ol' timer like Coulthard comes and takes the win? See, this is the sort of stuff we need, variety. Some future tracks could do just this.

So that's thirty pit spaces.....well, that will please Mr. Green - oh, Mr. Mosley because he wants 26 cars on the F1 grid in future races, and he wants more races, so Bathurst has the facilities to accomodate all those cars.

A lick of paint or whatever and it could be a good candidate for an addotional race to the calendar.

I agree about ''unexpected'' race victories in F1, I think Massa and Button were a breath of fresh air from Schumacher and Alonso (Fisichella win in Malaysia aswell). It's like in football, you can't have all the forwards scoring all the goals, there's got to be some defenders in there aswell, there's got to be variety.

How about a Red Bull or a Toro Rosso on a strong day, Alonso tries to slipstream Schumacher down the end of Conrod, Schumacher brakes early defends the line, shunts in the back, wheel comes off for Alonso and rear wing and gearbox damaged for Schumacher and an ol' timer like Coulthard comes and takes the win? See, this is the sort of stuff we need, variety. Some future tracks could do just this.

Or its somebodys first race, they brake late go straight through Caltex and hit the leader in the last 5 laps who is 15 seconds ahead and both cars are recked and the whole field catches up from the saftey car with 4 or 5 people in it for the win.
That would be a sight to see and hear: 5 F1's blasting down Conrod all trying to get in front.

See, that's exactly what's missing from F1 right now.

Back in the days of Jackie Stewart, the top five would be battling it out until the very last second of the race. Stewart won in Monza because he slipstreamed a man who had overtaken him on the last corner of the last lap.

In the mid 70s or 80s the top seven cars were seperated by less than half a second at the finish line.

That's exactly what we need. Sure, the Turkish GP was an absolute cracker, but wouldn't it have been even better if the leaders were tussling for positions all throughout the race, not in the pit stops and the backmarkers came into play even more.

What would be even better, is GP2 races. Now, generally these races are seperated by a few seconds at the end of a race, and sometimes they can go three abreast down into some corners, that would make for some viewing for spectators and people watching it on TV.

See, that's exactly what's missing from F1 right now.

Back in the days of Jackie Stewart, the top five would be battling it out until the very last second of the race. Stewart won in Monza because he slipstreamed a man who had overtaken him on the last corner of the last lap.

In the mid 70s or 80s the top seven cars were seperated by less than half a second at the finish line.

That's exactly what we need. Sure, the Turkish GP was an absolute cracker, but wouldn't it have been even better if the leaders were tussling for positions all throughout the race, not in the pit stops and the backmarkers came into play even more.

What would be even better, is GP2 races. Now, generally these races are seperated by a few seconds at the end of a race, and sometimes they can go three abreast down into some corners, that would make for some viewing for spectators and people watching it on TV.

I have never seen any footage of that but it sounds good. Thats also the only good thing soccer has over real football, its close to the end, if you get lucky you can win. But thats also why I don't like it.:D

It would probably do to Vegas or something like that.
One of the best things about Melbourne is my old school is less than a Kilometer away from the track. So we get some great back gorund noise from the F1s, V8s and 911s.
I can here them from home about 6 kilometers away as well.
That's something a bit special...and pretty cool :)
and Bennyboy, your right, more overtaking, (for me) means better racing...

That's something a bit special...and pretty cool :)


Yeah it was really cool, it made math some what interesting. But I ended up with extra home work.

It was pretty much at the same time as the practise sessions.

Yeah it was really cool, it made math some what interesting. But I ended up with extra home work.

It was pretty much at the same time as the practise sessions.

A son of my Mum's friend once got a day off school to go and see the Silverstone Friday practice session in 2005. Lucky beggar:mad: Just because his Uncle's a millionaire.....

That's something a bit special...and pretty cool :)
and Bennyboy, your right, more overtaking, (for me) means better racing...

I think more overtaking means better racing for everyone, except the person being overtook......but that's OK because he can get in the slipstream and regain his position! That's the type of racing everyone likes. Parading's just a waste of time and is boring.

Herman Tilke has done a fantastic job with the circuits he's designed, like Shanghai and Turkey, which have overtaking spots. It's like he's thinking in the mind of a driver, not in the mind of a sponsor who just wants their driver to win easily, with no action whatsoever.

Ultimately, if there's more overtkaing more people will watch it, which is what gets the money in, not parading because that's boring and useless.

A son of my Mum's friend once got a day off school to go and see the Silverstone Friday practice session in 2005. Lucky beggar:mad: Just because his Uncle's a millionaire.....



I think more overtaking means better racing for everyone, except the person being overtook......but that's OK because he can get in the slipstream and regain his position! That's the type of racing everyone likes. Parading's just a waste of time and is boring.

Herman Tilke has done a fantastic job with the circuits he's designed, like Shanghai and Turkey, which have overtaking spots. It's like he's thinking in the mind of a driver, not in the mind of a sponsor who just wants their driver to win easily, with no action whatsoever.

Ultimately, if there's more overtkaing more people will watch it, which is what gets the money in, not parading because that's boring and useless.

I agree. Overtaking is the most intrasting part of the race. It would also be interesting if the cars came with hand brakes:D

Also that would be a great job to have.

Phillip Island would also be good with its Corkscrew like turn. I have done a scale replica of the circut in a go cart and you can not see around the corner.

Was I the only one to think that Massa looked really uncomfortable on the podium, I felt quite sorry for him because in a way it looked like he couldn't wait to get off.

Edit - dam I didn't realise there were so many more pages to this. However I completely disagree with you about Herman Tilke bennyboy. In an interview with him he said that the first thing that he considers is the VIP areas and car parks and then he designs the circuit around them, thats not the way design a circuit imo. All his cicuits follow a predictable pattern and are to santised.

Was I the only one to think that Massa looked really uncomfortable on the podium, I felt quite sorry for him because in a way it looked like he couldn't wait to get off.

I didn't see it, I usally leave once everyone has finished and I'v seen the results.

I agree. Overtaking is the most intrasting part of the race. It would also be interesting if the cars came with hand brakes:D

Also that would be a great job to have.

Phillip Island would also be good with its Corkscrew like turn. I have done a scale replica of the circut in a go cart and you can not see around the corner.

Lmfao handbrakes!!!! Send that in a SAE to the FIA!!

Imagine, Schumacher and Alonso drifting around Turn 8 in Turkey, the quadruple apex levithain and then bottoming out and spinning, that would be very very very entertaining!

Of course overtkaing is important, and that's what we're lacking right now in F1. Without overtaking it's not an F1 race, it's an F1 drive. Get on pole, you win the race.

The tracks you're proposing are perfect for overtaking.

EDIT: Apologies, vmax, I didn't know that Hermann Tilke thought designing circuits like that, I thought he designed all the car parks around the track!

I think Massa was uncomfortable because he really wanted to burst into tears and he couldn't really do that on the podium, but anyway, congratulations to him.

I agree. Overtaking is the most intrasting part of the race. It would also be interesting if the cars came with hand brakes:D

Also that would be a great job to have.

Phillip Island would also be good with its Corkscrew like turn. I have done a scale replica of the circut in a go cart and you can not see around the corner.

They would probably end up not using them...my Dad doesn't use it for everyday driving, so I don't see why they would...

F1 isn't daily driving is it:D

Shove Seb Loeb in a Ferrari with a handbrake and he'd know what to do.

Anyway, handbrakes would probably contravene the rules in some shape or form.

Using the handbrake in WRC makes sense because thats the quickest way for a WRC to get around corners and because of the different surfaces involved. In F1 however even the slightest slide loses you a lot of time which means a handbrake would only be good for parking which they to do alright without.

^^ I know...but I was just backing up my point they'd find ways of making them obselete...

I think LoH just said it for a joke, of course there's going to be no handbrakes in F1, unescessary weight and unescessary unescessarlyiness:)

Anyway, we need overtaking overtaking overtaking, and ooh, also a ban on tractional control because a ''little girl could drive an F1 car'', as quoted by Ricardo Zonta.

The Paul Ricard sounds good and Martin Brundle raves about it in his book, that would be a lot better than the current excuse of a circuit Magny Cours.

It looks good, and yes, Magny-Cours is a bit lacking, the drivers know Paul Ricard very well because there's been a lot of testing going on there over the years and it's got straights leading into tight corners which means overtaking, and slipstreams, and no parading, hopefully.

yeah, that circuit looks...different...I really think you need to look at the whole picture with F1
teams..cars..drivers..contracts..sponsor s..tracks
If you put that list in order, i really think tracks would come last..

Sponsors would probably beat drivers hmmm :s

Yeah, most people in F1, bar the drivers, and the teams, are in F1 for the money. The drivers don't go into the F1 to get money. They go into F1 to race, which is what they love doing the most. The teams help these guys win.

The sponsors, however, just want money from their team.

Patrol Ofisi, sponsoring Honda just after Button won in Hungary. They smelt a winner.

Malrboro offering a helluva lot of money for Raikkonen for Ferrari for 2007. They'll make money off that.

yeh, also certain companies will attach themselves to a driver to boost their national driver and try to get sign them even though they are actualy not that good so it sometimes occurs that a team will keep a substandard driver just to keep the sponsor.

^^ But then, sponsors make a lot, yes, but the sponsor I really don't get is Red Bull.
They must sell literally billions of those cans to support 2 F1 teams, various flying events, cycling, skiing, other car events, nascar etc etc..it's crazy..and just shows..

It's absolutely crazy isn't it, and you would have thought that with all that money and with all those companies that RBR and STR would be any good?

No offence to them, but they're terrible! They should scrap everything apart from the Air Race to focus on the F1. With all the money that they've spent on everything else, they could have been big guns in F1, because that's where the big bucks come in F1.

Now that they've Adrian Newey designing their RB3 next year, I think that their best result will be a third because one designer in a team won't turn a team whos been running consistently outside the top ten into a team that can be winning races.

Christian Horner, the Team Boss said that they target race wins in 2008, so about this year they've got to be running in the top five, which they're not, and next year, in the top three, which they're not, so i think it will take RB at least until 2010 until they can have a shot at winning some races.

I don't think Red Bull are terrible, at all..at least they have points and they are brand new to F1..and haven't fulfilled their potential at all.
This year really has split itself..your either good, or not in a good team.

i Like the red bull team, they seem really fun and a good team.