This particular story occured in the summer of 2002 at Renegade Raceway up in Washington state where I am originally from.

My gearhead pals, Nick and Craig plus myself were enjoying an evening cruising about in our respective cars. Nick had just completed a top-end overhaul w/ some port work of his 377ci SBC which resided in his '81 Camaro Z-28 and was ready for a good test n' tune so we headed over to the local 1/4 mile track. At the time I was driving an '84 Formula packing a 331ci SBC (a vintage 327 bored .030 over) budget converted to TPI with the usual bolt-ons that ran consistent high 13 second passes with a T-5 tranny and 3.23 gears. My other drinking buddy Craig who was also present that night drove a mildly modded '92 Mustang GT. His precise mods/configuration escape me at this point but as I recall he pulled low 13s on demand in his pony.

Anyway, we're out for a normal night at the strip. The local Mopar and Ford clubs were there going head-to-head in something of an organized grudge night. In between watching hellacious big-blocks roaring down the tarmac, tweeking the holley carb of Nick's ride and woofing down overpriced track food, we couldn't help but notice a growing number of import "tuners" congregating in the parking lot.

Please bear in mind as you read this was a time when the whole sport compact thing was in full-swing, and as a result this particular crowd had an attitude to match. They really shouldn't have had such an ego as the most threatening car in their fold was a brand new WRX. As many of you might recall this was a time when the muscle vs rice rivalry was at it's peak.

A few members of this group who called themselves "Team Innocent" sauntered over and began looking over some of the appealing muscle cars there that night. Apparently the owner of a disco-era Nova got pissed when he caught one of this club's members tugging at something under his hood when his back was turned. The member of team innocent got indignent and called his friends over to back him up.

"WTF" I said to myself. "This guy was totally in the right to keep this punk away from his car".

For whatever petty reason, a fight was in the wind as the three team innocent members attempted to start trouble with this Nova driver who did nothing but protect his property from some unscrupulous person. Hardly believing they to be the injured party the track manager came down and gave the tuner club a stern warning. Crisis averted, operations at the track continued as normal although tension remained.

When Team Innocent got their licks in on the strip the casualties were a Celica GT-S with a snapped halfshaft following a high rpm clutch-dump and a new WRX with a blown water pump seal. Although no one had taunted them the belligerent tuners were thoroughly embarrased at their misfortunes and once again turned their wrath toward the muscle car guys.

Standing 20 feet away from a nice Ford Torino I heard one of team innocent's members shout "Fine, let all of these old mother f*ckers have a turn at it." as he helped push his pal's Subaru back to the gravel parking lot.

One of the Ford club members responded appropriately by saying "I though I recognized that car. Hell yeah! It's made from all my recycled budweiser cans!"

One of the Mopar members then joined in and made an offhand comment about the ridiculous body-kits sported by many of the team innocent followers. That's when the whole situation went into meltdown mode.

About two minutes later I heard shouts. Looking over I saw a heavy set member of the Mopar club with a punk from Team Innocent in a headlock, punching the kid in the face repeatedly as they struggled. A fight had broken out! Out of nowhere a hurled pepsi can hit the windshield of an orange '74 'Cuda, cracking it. Gloves off, the Mopar club and Team Innocent members clashed.

Craig, Nick and myself dashed over to witness the altercation as the track staff arrived to try and break things up. When order was semi-restored a member of team innocent lay on the ground semi-conscious, blood pouring from a clearly broken nose. One of the Mopar guys clutched a rag to his forearm to cover a cut. Another Team Innocent guy stood with a swollen eye argueing with track staff. Naturally the police and an ambulance were called as most of Team Innocent fled the scene, bravely leaving behind a few of their compatriates in the process.

As it turns out the heavy Mopar guy I mentioned before had caught the now broken-nose punk keying the fine paintjob of his Plymouth GTX who upon being discovered took a swing at him. The battered tuner was charged by police for malicious mischief and vandalism. Another team innocent member was charged with 2nd degree assault with a weapon and ordered to pay for the repair of the 'Cuda's windshield.

The next day the Track's owner announced an immediate ban on all FWD cars, no exceptions whatsoever. The track also hired security guards to prevent further incidents. The ban on FWD-anything remained firmly enforced for two years until the dragstrip was sold and came under new management. A bulk of Team Innocent was nailed by the Sheriffs department a few weeks later for illegal street racing on some back roads. Several cars were subsequently impounded by the authorities and some drivers licences were revoked which pretty much ended their fun for good.

What is the moral of this story?

I like the ending of the story, since the kids got what they deserved, but i do not think that the solution is to ban FWD cars from the dragstrip, that only causes more illegal street racing.
i think that increasing security could done it better.
In my city we do not have racing circuits or even a dragstrip, at least not whenever we want . only for racing and car audio events.
And i've street raced like most car/motorcycle lovers down here, but we don't particulary like it because it is dangerous, but we have no choice if we want to go fast.
I guess you can afford better to ban people from racing zones than we in Colombia are.

The moral of the story is don't be a typical ricer or the guys with twice the cylinders will kick your ass.

What is the moral of this story?

A FWD Civic with an aero kit that decreases aero dynamic efficany and no engine mods will be beaten hands down by performance cars :D

Or someone who knows what they are doing.

when keyying a car dont get caught...

im jk....moral of that story is...those who talk dont know and those who know dont say a thing.

That was a great story lol.. "Team Innocent" AHHAHAH!

Not quite a typical night at the strip, interesting.
I'm surprised that the track had a ban on FWD cars for 2 years, wow!
The moral of the story... Don't mess with seasoned veteren gearheads... maybe?


now....had that been in arizona....



That had absolutly NOTHING to do with the story! Totally off topic!
Why do you contenuesly bring up bull---- like that?

That had absolutly NOTHING to do with the story! Totally off topic!
Why do you contenuesly bring up bull---- like that?
Because it gets attention...

unfortunately the rift between Americam car owners, and Asian car owners still exists. I really do not have anything against asian cars, and I do not think most American car owners do. My issue is with some of the owners. Often the asian owners are young and immature. The American car owners are often older people with little tolerance.

It seems that in my area the Asian car owners group together, Say "YO" way too much, try to ack like gangsters, and blast rap music. They also seem to talk a lot of trash. This is what I have a problem with.

^^ exactly.

btw, you key ny of m vehicles, yod be lucky to only have a broken nose, understand?

my vehciles are like, i dunno, my kids man. I work on it, it make it better and faster and what no just like you have a kid, you teach him/her stuff and make them a better person and whatnot

touch my kids, i kill you. touch my car, it wont be as bad, but itll be close.

I dont tolerate any kind of disrepect for another person property, and vandalism really pisses me off. tuner kids need to quite being ass wipes just cause they lose so much. if all the air that came out of thier mouths went into the engine, they might actually win some races.

All three parties could've handled this alot better. Team Innocent should not have been name-calling and vandalizing other's property. Mopar guys should not have reacted with such violence. The track owner's decision to ban all FWD cars is plain stupid. Team Innocent is hardly representative of the whole FWD owner population.

If Team Innocent were made up of Surpas/RX-7s/350Zs/S2000s/MX-5s/300ZX/etc. should the track owner ban all RWD cars? :o

I feel bad for a lot of Asian car fans. I mean, honestly, those kind of kids put a really bad rap on them. Nowadays, any Asian car that goes to any dragstrip gets scoffed at. They're not outright, mocked, mind you. Everyone just gives them the evil eye. And these might be the nicest, smartest guys you'll ever meet. It doesn't matter. The second you show up with an asian car, you're automatically a "punk".

Either way, Team Innocent can suck my nuts.

Jeezus Q. Man I could slap the hell out of each of those punk asses myself. I am an avid Honda enthusiast. In many of my posts, I recommend that Honda owners (and import owners in general) keep thier cars off drag strips. They are not meant for 1/4 miles. DUH. On an autocross or local race track, we would hand the pony cars thier little tooties, but not on drag strips. I have no idea why folks can't get that in thier heads.

--Now, why Mr. Infernal had to go and put this story up just to FURTHER make import fans look bad is beyond me. How about a good story about the "riceboys" once in a while?? Around here, it seems like the USA guys and thier heavy hittin', beer drinkin', country music muscle cars and propped up trucks are more of an annoyance, and danger for that matter...maybe that's because I'm in the Confederate capitol of the USA...maybe not. Really, I'm tired of defending my prefrences in automobiles to the death, and this garbage doesn't help. Oh well, I guess theres nothing I can do.

Jeezus Q. Man I could slap the hell out of each of those punk asses myself. I am an avid Honda enthusiast. In many of my posts, I recommend that Honda owners (and import owners in general) keep thier cars off drag strips. They are not meant for 1/4 miles. DUH. On an autocross or local race track, we would hand the pony cars thier little tooties, but not on drag strips. I have no idea why folks can't get that in thier heads.

--Now, why Mr. Infernal had to go and put this story up just to FURTHER make import fans look bad is beyond me. How about a good story about the "riceboys" once in a while?? Around here, it seems like the USA guys and thier heavy hittin', beer drinkin', country music muscle cars and propped up trucks are more of an annoyance, and danger for that matter...maybe that's because I'm in the Confederate capitol of the USA...maybe not. Really, I'm tired of defending my prefrences in automobiles to the death, and this garbage doesn't help. Oh well, I guess theres nothing I can do.

KCIR, the local drag strip in my city, is holding a large all-day drag racing event in about 3 weeks. I drive a 1995 Honda Accord. One of my good buddy, who will also be there racing with me, drives a 1993 Cadillac DeVille. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that our cars are far from being the ideal 1/4 mile monster. But guess what? It's all about having fun. We know we are going to be some of the slowest cars there and we know more than a handful of people will snicker when we stage that light. So what?

Contrary to popular Vince Lombardo c**k-sucking and ball-licking, winning isn't everything. It's about the comradeship, the experience, and having a good time with your pals. I've never ran my Accord so I am anxious to see what times it can churn out. I'll be very happy if I can break into the 16s on the 1/4mile, and you can quote me on that :D Besides, we'll be having a blast watching some real beasts burn up the track.

And as for your comment regarding Mr. Infernal, it is not completely without merit. But what can you do. People have their preferences and some do so with stronger passion than others. Just hope that this is another lesson for the general car enthusiasm community rather than fuel for the ancient import-domestic war...

By the way VTEC_Dreams, I'm glad that you decided to come back. I think you are a great contribution to SCF, sort of balancing out the numerous domestic fans on here ;)

well shucks...thanks. Go forth and lob some heads off with that wicked 140hp SOHC FURY!!!!

well shucks...thanks. Go forth and lob some heads off with that wicked 140hp SOHC FURY!!!!

C'mon man you're supposed to be the import guru here, my CD5 Accord gots the F22B1 with 145hp SOHC and it has variable valve timing and electronic lift control ...aka.... you guessed it VTEC!

I'll be posting times and plenty of pics. Can't wait to go. I went last year and it was a blast!

I bet you, if i had a cluth in my jeep, i could run as well as you or better.

you meaning nist.

lol, you know what would be fun? an scf drag racing shootout. like, organized and everything, find out a place where as many people as possible can get to it or whatever, and stuff. itd be cool, i think anyways. most of you are probably too afraid to meet people off the net. pansies

I bet you, if i had a cluth in my jeep, i could run as well as you or better.

you meaning nist.

lol, you know what would be fun? an scf drag racing shootout. like, organized and everything, find out a place where as many people as possible can get to it or whatever, and stuff. itd be cool, i think anyways. most of you are probably too afraid to meet people off the net. pansies

whaaaa???? you wanna run me in your jeep? you know what's unda ma hood? yeah, I've got VTAK yo, yeah....might as well give up now bro.... :p

Seriously car_buff, if your wrangler has the 4.0L then I would get my ass whooped yo. You got about 50hp and ~70ft-lbs and weight advantage on me. I've got about 100lbs of audio equipment and the motor has 172k miles on it AND the previous owners were both female, hehe.

But that SCF drag racing would be awesome! Maybe we can do something like everyone take their daily driver to their drag strip and then scan an image of their time slip on here. A few people on here have pretty fast cars, like that one dude with the brand new C6 Z06. But of course Heretic or Slow or monkey prolly has a sleeping monster in their garage...

lmao, about the me wooping you part, yea i know, that why i offered :D

mm, my jeep, stock, weighs more than 6,000 pounds, and with the slightly wider than stock tires, and lift kit, itll be a little more than that.

so, you might be able to jump the gun on me, but then, ive got the extra torque to help me out, so who knows.

about the sleepers, yea, it would surprise. I know monkeys wife has a car with an illegal racing tranmission, so, who knows what else is banging around in his garage.

but, if that were to ever happen, by the time it did happen, i would have my dad 600 hp 460 in a fully retored muscle car, or even better, soemthing of my own.

btw, forgot to mention, jeep only has just barely over 30k miles. but then, it was a flood victim, so, lets add 100k, 130k miles. still gotcha, :p

6000lbs??? That's for a Wrangler??? You are talking about the Wrangler right.....? C'mon, I see those jeeps everyday and there is no way they can weigh 6000lbs...

building a muscle car is sweet, but if you wanna cheat just get a liter bike :p at my school this morning there were 2 hayabusas, an R1, a Ducati 996 (or something similar, but it wasn't a 999), and a Triumph 955 ( i think). there were always a crowd around the bikes, all looked brand spanking new

edit: holy crap this was/is my 1000th post, w00t!

lol, you know what would be fun? an scf drag racing shootout. like, organized and everything, find out a place where as many people as possible can get to it or whatever, and stuff. itd be cool

I'm down for that action...sign me up :driving

yea dude, it says right on it, 6,000 something pounds, theres a sticker on the inside of the door, its got the weight for the frotn and rear end. front is only slightly more heavy than the rear if i remember correctly, but yea, its over 6,000 pounds.

oh damn, I had no idea those little things weighed that much. In that case, maybe my little Accord can put up a decent fight after all. I'll keep an eye out for any stock wranglers that may show up on drag-racing day... :)

eh, my jeeps not exactly stock. I dunno what else, but ive dicovered everythign except the muffler on the exhaust system is after market, sound ssweet too. although, i want to get a new mufller that isnt half rusted through.

nothing else that i can notice is after market, other than the lift, but its possible the gearing may have been played with, giving me more mechanical advantage. plus, its not gonna be stock for long, if i can help it.

eh, my jeeps not exactly stock. I dunno what else, but ive dicovered everythign except the muffler on the exhaust system is after market, sound ssweet too. although, i want to get a new mufller that isnt half rusted through.

nothing else that i can notice is after market, other than the lift, but its possible the gearing may have been played with, giving me more mechanical advantage. plus, its not gonna be stock for long, if i can help it.

Just to let you know,..thats your Jeeps GVWR or "Gross Vehicle Weight Rating". In other words, the maximum your Jeep can weigh and still be road worthy.

The front and rear axle weight ratings are specific weights the front can weigh maximum, and weight the rear can weigh maximum.

Just a heads up.

Just to let you know,..thats your Jeeps GVWR or "Gross Vehicle Weight Rating". In other words, the maximum your Jeep can weigh and still be road worthy.

The front and rear axle weight ratings are specific weights the front can weigh maximum, and weight the rear can weigh maximum.

Just a heads up.

aha. Thank you for the clarification slow. In other words I'll definitely get my ass kicked...

The moral of the story is that:

1) Muscle car guys hate "imports" and "tuner guys"

2) That all "tuner guys" are dickheads, and that all imports are unreliable

No.

I'm a "tuner/import guy", and I am not a dickhead. I totally respect all kinds of cars. The REAL moral of the story is "don't mess w/ ppl" or "don't vandalize(sp?) crap".....

--Now, why Mr. Infernal had to go and put this story up just to FURTHER make import fans look bad is beyond me. How about a good story about the "riceboys" once in a while?? Around here, it seems like the USA guys and thier heavy hittin', beer drinkin', country music muscle cars and propped up trucks are more of an annoyance, and danger for that matter...maybe that's because I'm in the Confederate capitol of the USA...maybe not. Really, I'm tired of defending my prefrences in automobiles to the death, and this garbage doesn't help. Oh well, I guess theres nothing I can do.

Vtec, I merely posted the facts to an incident that I personally witnessed. The perps just-so-happened to represent the worst of the import population. It was by far the most interesting night I'd ever had at the track and thus figured I'd be so nice as to post it up here on SCF.

If anything you ought to be irritated with Team Innocent's criminal behavior for reinforcing the already poor reputation their choice of automobile carries. Just read the story for crying out loud!: Some punk-asses deliberately start a fight by vandalizing someone else's property 100% unprovoked. Never mind the fact that vandalizing a car is an extraordinarly juvenile thing to do, but what more could we expect from this belligerent crowd? Hmm?

In otherwords, before you assume too much think of it from this standpoint: All other FWD enthusiasts in the area got royally screwed because of "Team Innocent's" antics.

AWDfreak nailed the moral of this story on the head: "The REAL moral of the story is "don't mess w/ ppl" or "don't vandalize(sp?) crap"....."

Thank you AWDfreak for your objective perceptivity.

--Now, why Mr. Infernal had to go and put this story up just to FURTHER make import fans look bad is beyond me. How about a good story about the "riceboys" once in a while?? Around here, it seems like the USA guys and thier heavy hittin', beer drinkin', country music muscle cars and propped up trucks are more of an annoyance, and danger for that matter...maybe that's because I'm in the Confederate capitol of the USA...maybe not. Really, I'm tired of defending my prefrences in automobiles to the death, and this garbage doesn't help. Oh well, I guess theres nothing I can do.
I have an idea for you Vtec...
Why don't YOU make a thread about the time you were at the track, if you find this story offensive, because of the outcome, go tell us your stories.
Like what Infernal said, this is just a personal altercation that happened when he was there. So as long as you write about your experiences at the strip, I'll read your thread too. Maybe you have some stories about old men gear heads tinkered around with someone elses car, I don't know. If you think the import tuners have a bad name, go do what you can to chang that, based on your experiences, and tell us.
Try to prove it wrong, that import tuners are "punks". If you believe so fully that it is otherwise, then it shouldn't be hard to do.

building a muscle car is sweet, but if you wanna cheat just get a liter bike

I wouldn't exactly call that cheating. You have to have a lot of skill to ride one of those fast. Anyone can cruise in first gear, but it takes some real balls and talent to keep it under control in the quarter mile.

What a bunch of ass pirates.

*rolls eyes*

TBH, now that people have pretty much realized the import v. domestic fun can be just that, it's good.

I've seen a couple of local car meets with late 60's muscle cars alongside some RSX's, WRX's, and the random S2000, and all in all, it was all smiles. It might just be those guys in particular, in which case, they got what they deserved.

I wouldn't exactly call that cheating. You have to have a lot of skill to ride one of those fast. Anyone can cruise in first gear, but it takes some real balls and talent to keep it under control in the quarter mile.

Good point. I guess I was using the verb "cheat" in the sense that it would be more economical in terms of dollars-per-second in the 1/4 mile.