This is for all who are interested.
I'm not sure whether it belongs here or not but it's an interesting little history lesson.

Most people already know Mazda makes cars using rotary engines.
Most of you will even know that Mazda once entered rotary engined cars into Le Mans.
Most of those who know however don't know what happened to those quad rotor engines afterwards.

In 1991 Mazda entered the now legendary 787B in Le Mans, using the 26B quad rotor rotary engine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/MAZDA787B.jpg


They won the race.

The FIA, worried about the top speeds achieved during the races (?) decided to ban rotary engines alltogether and Mazda decided that from there on they would no longer be able to promote their trademark rotary engine. They withdrew from Le Mans participations but not from racing.

Some quad rotor engines were planned for IMSA and Le Mans series.

Unfortunately, Mazda experienced problems with the heat generated by the exhaust system of the engine and had a few cars catch fire before the races even started.

This resulted in Sebring, the first scheduled race for the predecessor of the 787B, the RX792-P to be withdrawn and the project abandoned.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RX-792P.htm

As far as 24 hour racing goes that was the death stroke to the 26B quad rotor engine.

15 years after it's first appearance though, the 26B engine is, oddly enough, still on sale, offered by Mazdaspeed and for racing purposes only.

In 2004 Queen street Racing took part in the Caldera and Willowbank jamboree drag races with a 26B powered E36 BMW M3.

They used a twin turbo setup producing over 1000 HP and set a time of 7.22 seconds for a 1/4 mile pass.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/the_solitaire/cars/115_1542.jpg

Some technical details to marvel about.
Model:BMW 3-Series Coupe
Engine: 26B Four Rotor Twin Turbocharged
Engine Modifications: Fully prepared 26B four rotor engine (including dowelling and extend porting), custom inlet plenum chamber, twin Garrett T77 turbochargers, custom-made front-mounted intercooler, sixteen 2000cc injectors, Methanol fuel pumps, Microtech engine management system.
Driveline: Lenco air-shifted 5-speed gearbox, custom clutch, 9-Inch differential.
Suspension & Brakes: AllSprings Springs and Shocks (f), Spax Coilovers (r), Wilwood Rotors and Calipers (front and rear), parachute.
Performance:Estimated 1120rwkw (1500rwhp), expecting low seven second 1/4 mile times.
Wheels & Tyres: Weld Alumastars (f & r), Hoosier front runners (f), Mickey Thompson slicks (r).

For this year the people from Queen St. Racing teamed up with Mazsport to try and get into the 6's.
They changed the setup to a single turbo and estimate a higher power output then last year. Test runs resulted in low 7 second runs so far.

Some imagery on their new E46 BMW.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/the_solitaire/cars/post-615-11587623862090736496.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/the_solitaire/cars/post-615-1158762399463669709.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/the_solitaire/cars/QSRE4626B1.jpg



http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/the_solitaire/cars/video/?action=view&current=dragcar.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

Wow 7.22 secs ET!! Thats wicked!!

Nice quarter mile time .
7.22 secs . Thats fast...it accelerates faster than my dad's car go 60mph .

very nice thread sol, we need more of these threads, keep em coming

very nice thread sol, we need more of these threads, keep em coming

I second that ...

I couldn't help it. As soon as I saw the pics of that unfinished black E46 with smoking tyres I had to find an excuse for posting something about it...

Would monkeymod or any of the other drag racing buffs be able to tell me how exactly that tranny works? It looks fascinating. That might help me understand why the paint is chipping off after a single day of practice and test runs. Seems to be under a lot of stress but it's estimated to have around 1500 WHP

Holy *****... I thought the 26B was gone forever, but it's great news that MAZDASPEED is selling it......

DAM! That's quite a car, a 7 sec 1/4 mile. But, did they really have to use an M3? (I don't like mixing manufacturers).....

That's an odd combo, Bimmer and Mazda rotary power, but, when you're running a car like that, it's pretty much pure-custom.

*phew*

That's fast. =)

Man, i wish they were still aloud in Le Mans. That engine is so intresting to me.

Look at the turbo on that thing! Its Huge.

How many rotors are on the current RX-8? and 3rd Gen. RX-7?

both the RX8 and the FD3S RX7 (series 6, 7 and 8) use variants of the 13B 2 rotor 1306cc rotary engine.
Biggest difference is that the RX8 uses the 13B REN (renesis) engine which has re-located exhaust ports compared to the earlier 13B's which allows a better airflow through the combustion chamber (and allows porting without having inlet and exhaust overlap that easily)

If the 13b had better flow for the engine, why did they change to the 13B REN. Gas Mileage?

man that turbo in that last pic is huge.
26b rotary engine is amazing.2 bad lemans won't be seeing another one.

Guess I warped the sentence bit there.
The renesis has the better flow. Especially the part where exhaust gasses are flown out of the combustion chamber. The previous 13B's had the occasional "accidental" situation where fuel/air mixture would be flushed into the exhaust or did not burn completely.

Especially when enlarging the ports on teh engine it happened more often that fuel/air would be pushed out and ignite in the exhaust. Peripheral porting was used to countermand this.
The renesis engine uses a peripheral style port for exhaust port a s well as intake port making it more fuel efficient and deliver more power.

I think indeed that it's too bad rotaries were banned.
LOLA had quite a list of successes using rotary engines.

Yeah Sean, at this point the only thing left that's BMW is a couple body panels, maybe parts of the pan and a couple chassis pieces! lol

Solitaire... if you look at the tranny close you'll see the dark rings around it that hold the separate cases together. The first case is 1st and 2nd, then one gear each after that. In this case, it's a 5 speed. Look real close at the back of the tranny... see the lever with the little black knob on top? That's the reverse gear case. Not all Lencos have reverse. The only thing I can say about the paint peeling is that they did it themselves and didn't use high temp paint, and now the heat is flaking it off. As for how they work... that's a hard one to explain in a way that makes sense. The only way I can really describe it is that basically the clutch, engine, and gear assembly all stay engaged during shifting, this is why there is absolutely no hesitation during shift changes. During shifting the clutch pack is compressed against the gear assembly and the next gear assembly slides over to take the other one's place. Something like that.

Lenco does make street transmissions if you're brave! lol

Very interesting, I never knew they still made quad rotors.
Another question: What exactly is dowelling?

The Rotary was never banned from Le Mans. What happened was a change in the regualtions in order to favour the Peugeots. And they didn't leave Le Mans because they couldn't promote their rotary engine - In 1992, Mazda in desperation to continue winning put their name on a TWR car with a Judd V10.

In 1995, Mazda entered a 13B powered WSC car that came 7th overall. In 1996 they changed to the 20B and a new LMP2 car. It wasn't any success though. In 1997 there was a few privateer entries using the 13B.
The rotary has never left Le Mans. It was restricted and made uncompetitive by the ACO, and it slowly lost factory backing from Mazda.

Nice thread though. I never knew they were still/ever available for sale. I want one..!

Great thread solitaire, I've always been in love with the 26B. You have provided some great historical and practical info.

How streetable do you all think a quad-rotor setup would be? Obviously this car is purpose-built, hence the huge turbo and the giant transmission assembly (which would not be possible for a street car). But how feasible would it be to use a much milder quad-rotor setup? What about power ratings for a naturally aspirated one?

Another question: how would supercharging fare against turbo? I'm thinking rotors can rev quite high so turbo may be more efficient in making power...

I couldn't help it. As soon as I saw the pics of that unfinished black E46 with smoking tyres I had to find an excuse for posting something about it...

Would monkeymod or any of the other drag racing buffs be able to tell me how exactly that tranny works? It looks fascinating. That might help me understand why the paint is chipping off after a single day of practice and test runs. Seems to be under a lot of stress but it's estimated to have around 1500 WHP

First of all, the four rotor rotary first made it's debut in a corvette concept in about 1970. The XP 882 corvette concept had the prototype rotary sitting midframe. It was basically two rotary engines tired together,and was quite revolutionary for the time

The transmission in question is a sectional,with each sectionhaving it's own gear cluster.Each cluster is just a compound of the cluster before it.You have the opportunity to choose how many gears you want, and add that many sections.The airpots just shift each one for you,instead of you manually working the "lightning rods". (these are the multiple shifters you see in some race cars. As you pull back each rod you shift a gear)

the giant transmission assembly (which would not be possible for a street car).Actually there are Lenco street trannies that are about the same size... Even the racing Lencos and Liberty's are streetable if you use the right gearing. You don't have to run them 1,2,3,4, etc... In my Camaro, when I do a burnout, I pull back the 2nd and 3rd bars... that puts my gear ratio in between 1st and 2nd so I can get a good burnout without having to keep the engine tached at redline. As I come out of the burnout I pull back the 1st bar and I'm in 4th gear. That gives the engine a smooth drop in power instead of just letting off the pedal and throwing the engine from 5000 rpm to idle all at once. It's tricky but if you get used to it, it becomes second nature. All the bars forward is 1st gear, pull the first bar back and you're in 2nd, and so on... They don't have a neutral or parking gear so that can be a problem sometimes... but it's worth it.

This is a Lenco ST1200 Street Trans. This one's a 5 speed with a reverse module...

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2046/st1200os2.gif (http://imageshack.us)


This one is a CS-3 Racing tranny. It's a 5 speed, no reverse, designed for the track. Not too much different than the street one...

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/283/cs3ut3.png (http://imageshack.us)

Actually there are Lenco street trannies that are about the same size... Even the racing Lencos and Liberty's are streetable if you use the right gearing. You don't have to run them 1,2,3,4, etc... In my Camaro, when I do a burnout, I pull back the 2nd and 3rd bars... that puts my gear ratio in between 1st and 2nd so I can get a good burnout without having to keep the engine tached at redline. As I come out of the burnout I pull back the 1st bar and I'm in 4th gear. That gives the engine a smooth drop in power instead of just letting off the pedal and throwing the engine from 5000 rpm to idle all at once. It's tricky but if you get used to it, it becomes second nature. All the bars forward is 1st gear, pull the first bar back and you're in 2nd, and so on... They don't have a neutral or parking gear so that can be a problem sometimes... but it's worth it.


This is a Lenco ST1200 Street Trans. This one's a 5 speed with a reverse module...

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2046/st1200os2.gif (http://imageshack.us)


This one is a CS-3 Racing tranny. It's a 5 speed, no reverse, designed for the track. Not too much different than the street one...

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/283/cs3ut3.png (http://imageshack.us)


What kind of advantages do these have over regular transmissions? Lighter, faster, stronger or all 3?

There is NO hesitation between gears, they're typically lighter, and you won't find a stronger tranny. The older guys here and the younger ones who have experience with muscle cars will know what I'm talking about when I bring up the Rock Crusher and the Top Loader. The Top Loader was a Ford tranny back in the day. Arguably, the only production trannies stronger than it were the Muncie M-21 and the Muncie M-22 Rock Crusher that GM used. Those things were bullet proof. A Rock Crusher behind a Keith Black built big block was invincible on the track. Anyway (I get excited talking about this crap! lol), the only thing stronger than a Top Loader or a Rock Crusher is a Lenco. They're pretty amazing trannies. My dad has one from the 80's that was in a Pro Stock car. Since then it's been in numerous cars and has been through probably half a dozen engines. They are well more than worth the expense if you're seriously into racing.

There is NO hesitation between gears, they're typically lighter, and you won't find a stronger tranny. The older guys here and the younger ones who have experience with muscle cars will know what I'm talking about when I bring up the Rock Crusher and the Top Loader. The Top Loader was a Ford tranny back in the day. Arguably, the only production trannies stronger than it were the Muncie M-21 and the Muncie M-22 Rock Crusher that GM used. Those things were bullet proof. A Rock Crusher behind a Keith Black built big block was invincible on the track. Anyway (I get excited talking about this crap! lol), the only thing stronger than a Top Loader or a Rock Crusher is a Lenco. They're pretty amazing trannies. My dad has one from the 80's that was in a Pro Stock car. Since then it's been in numerous cars and has been through probably half a dozen engines. They are well more than worth the expense if you're seriously into racing.

Ah ok. I assume these are for drag racing more than circut racing?

damn monkey, I'm having a tough time just operating ONE stick and here you throw out a tranny with five of them...ahhhhhh!

I don't see how it's possible to drive it on the street if you have no reverse gear. Neutral is not essential but reverse? Getting out of parking spots will be quite a challenge....

the only production trannies stronger than it were the Muncie M-21 and the Muncie M-22 Rock Crusher that GM used.

I run the M 21 in my vette. Shifting is not as smooth as a borg warner, but it is brutally strong, and will never slip out of gear

they appear and sound awesome, but i think it would be quite complicated to get used to

and now im confused about clutches and stff, do they still work like a normaly manuel, or what?

and with some one who isnt used to it and doesnt use it like a pro, what is the possibility of destroying a gear?

seems kind of like it would be kind of easy, at first. pull the first one for first, second for second, ect. but then when you through in the pull on2 and 3 for a burn out, im confused as to how you can run both at the same time and not ruin gears and/or just have the 3 engage.

Bloody hell. Why don't they make rotaries that big street legal?


Monkey, about the Lenco, if they have the entire drivetrain attached to the engine at all times, does it use an engine cutoff switch fduring the shift?

solitaire's link to the 4-rotor RX-792SP mentions a fire at Miami. The huge muffler ran forward on the right side of the car (covered by some kind of mesh) to exhaust behind the RF wheel. No matter; it was still too hot. The car qualified at Rd ATL but caught fire (NOT a total loss) on pace laps and was retired.

-----

monkey; does a Lenco have a pump in each section to pressurize the clutch pack?

Tom and Steve FX, thnx for the corrections and info. and Monkey, thnx for teh info on the tranny.
It's facinating to see a tranny like that in a pac/rim car. Normally they tend to use JDM parts where ever possible so it's relatively rare to see something like this appear on the scene.

I'm pretty sure the HKS full tube chassis dragster uses a similar transmission but I've never seen that confirmed on a picture or video.

why is it in a bimmer again?

wow. so fast. But how come the original engine doesn't break at Le mans?
Does anybody know what company else use rotary engine in their cars?

Oh, and for those transmission, they look very confusing and after reading all of it, how much of a second is it faster after all.????