Out of the v8 supercars and DTM. On the same track what do u think would be faster?...as far as i know there both V8 touringcars but tecnically there probably alot diffrent. Im guessing the DTM cars would brake and corner better but what about the straights. The DTM's would probably be lighter.

DTM by a long long way DTM cars weigh around 250 kilos less than V8 supercars

DTM as its lighter and it it has more downforce due to its side flares and compared to the V8s.

A lot more testing and technology goes into DTM, eg, with the aerodynamics and tuning, but V8 Supercars are probably faster. This is hard because both have plus and negative points.

you mist be kidding when you say V8 supercars are faster!!!

DTM is faster both in straight line and corners!! Point to be noted is that MotoGP is faster than V8 supercars in Philip Island but slower than DTM in Le Mans

you mist be kidding when you say V8 supercars are faster!!!

DTM is faster both in straight line and corners!! Point to be noted is that MotoGP is faster than V8 supercars in Philip Island but slower than DTM in Le Mans
What? So DTM are faster on the straights as well as the corners? Then theres no way a V8 Supercar would beat a DTM car. But it must depend on what sort of track though.

Well, i don't think it would depend on the track, if they corner and go faster in a straight line. V8 supercars may have a higher top speed, they will have a lot less downforce that the DTM, but i believe they will both be geared for acceleration over top speed, even though this is also dependent on the track.

DTMs seem a lot more nimble, and the technology that goes into these things are mind blowing. All these race bred chassis and things makes me think that DTMs are faster.

Depends on the track.

For European tracks the DTM's would win but for Australian tracks the V8 supercars would win.

Why?? Because of what the cars are setup for.

DTM by a long long way DTM cars weigh around 250 kilos less than V8 supercars

They also have up to 180 less hp.

DTM's wouldnt even be able to finish a lap of Bathurst, I am sure there are tracks like that the supercars would be no good at.

DTM's are faster to 100km/h but the supercars are the second fastest touring cars in terms of acceleration from 100-250km/h behind NASCAR and considering there are only a few turns on the V8 circuit that require them to drop below 100km/h I cant see DTM's standing a chance against them.

Phillip island Moto GP bikes vs supercars is a stupid comparison. The DTM's would lose to the bikes there as well. The circuit is designed for bike and go kart racing not touring cars. A Moto GP bike would give an F1 a run for its money there. Then again superbikes are slower than the supercars at Bathurst so that doesnt hold much ground.

At the end of the day they are designed for different tracks, One (DTM) for twisty European tracks that require a lot more downforce and braking capabilities, The other (V8supercars) for hot/dry conditions on fast tracks requiring mid range acceleration which is what the supercars are geared for excluding Bathurst where they change the final gear ratio.

They cant be compared unless they race each other on a track in both continents.

Stupid comparison.

ok thanks for that and i was just wondering mate

ok thanks for that and i was just wondering mate

While they are both touring cars its sort of like comparing apples with oranges. They are completely different.

Phillip island Moto GP bikes vs supercars is a stupid comparison. The DTM's would lose to the bikes there as well. The circuit is designed for bike and go kart racing not touring cars. A Moto GP bike would give an F1 a run for its money there. Then again superbikes are slower than the supercars at Bathurst so that doesnt hold much ground.

.

Well World Superbikes are just a bit faster than V8s there. But why do you think Motorcycles will be faster than just about anything at Philip Island??

dtm by far the fastest touringcars in the world been for years too!!!

Well World Superbikes are just a bit faster than V8s there. But why do you think Motorcycles will be faster than just about anything at Philip Island??

Track layout, Long sloping straights with only two 'slow' corners. Very free flowing circuit, Definately designed for bikes. Down the front straight alone the Bikes reach speeds that the supercars are not even capable of with there current gearing restrictions.

Nice place to visit with the view over the ocean mind you. Would love to go there myself and watch the Moto GP round next year.

So are you saying that in free-flowing circuits without slow corners Superbikes and MotoGP will be faster than V8 Supercars, DTM and FIA GT1 class cars??

At a track like Phillip Island, then yes. There is no reason why they shouldnt be faster than the above mentioned.

They accelerate off of the line faster and reach higher speeds much quicker than supercars and on a track with a higher average speed the bikes should have the advantage.

Having said that though, on a far more technical circuit like I doubt the bikes would beat the supercars. Unfortunately there are no real world comparisons between superbikes and V8 supercars for me to compare except for Phillip Island so I am really making assumptions on what seems more logical.

Why don't any of you kids do any research?

DTM cars are slightly lower tech than F1 and LM cars; V8 Supercars are lower tech construction than NASCAR.

While HP is restricted in DTM; the cars weigh almost 300 kg less minimum.

wouldnt V8 supercar be faster, the DTM cars, only have little engine mods, i think, main differnece to other HSV's are the Weight saving techniques, example, rims, interior, it was stripped. All there was is a steering wheel, Gearbox and seat, and pedals:p

Why don't any of you kids do any research?

DTM cars are slightly lower tech than F1 and LM cars; V8 Supercars are lower tech construction than NASCAR.

While HP is restricted in DTM; the cars weigh almost 300 kg less minimum.

How are V8 supercars lower tech than NASCAR? Sure V8 supercars are not high tech but to compare them to a NASCAR which has 70's and 80's technology.

Doesnt NASCAR use analogue gauges and have carby fed engines? If so I rest my case, because as it seems NASCAR is at the bottom of the technical tree when it comes to track based motorpsort.

Enough said, I have already stated that they are built for different tracks and different purposes which is why they are incomparable. Having said that though, The V8 supercars used to give the Le Mans vehicles a bit of a towelling at the Bathurst 24hr race.

wouldnt V8 supercar be faster, the DTM cars, only have little engine mods, i think, main differnece to other HSV's are the Weight saving techniques, example, rims, interior, it was stripped. All there was is a steering wheel, Gearbox and seat, and pedals:p
you gotta be kidding dude DTM cars use bespoke prototype racing engines

wouldnt V8 supercar be faster, the DTM cars, only have little engine mods, i think, main differnece to other HSV's are the Weight saving techniques, example, rims, interior, it was stripped. All there was is a steering wheel, Gearbox and seat, and pedals:p

V8 supercars have no resemblence to road going HSV's excluding the body.

there was a DTM, that had the smae engine, except stripped body, maybe that was something else. sorry, my bad...

Has anyone got stats on the Dtm cars?

http://www.dtm.de/technik.php

here you are!!

thanks mate

its in german but i interprate that its a 4 litre, 460 hp, 400nm tourque and weighs around 1070 kg

on a long straight a v8 supercar could catch a DTM
a DTM to handle well needs alot of downforce but as many of us (should) know that slows down your overall speed doesnt it......
hence to go flat out you put the veyrons wing down.

It really would depend on the track, I still think that on the twisty European circuits the DTM's would smoke the supercars but over here on our circuits with high speed corners and long straights the V8's would beat the DTM's. They are two different sorts of touring car created for different types of racing. The DTM's are much more advanced though.

[quote=wanna koenigsegg;413807]How are V8 supercars lower tech than NASCAR? Sure V8 supercars are not high tech but to compare them to a NASCAR which has 70's and 80's technology.

Doesnt NASCAR use analogue gauges and have carby fed engines? If so I rest my case, because as it seems NASCAR is at the bottom of the technical tree when it comes to track based motorpsort. quote]

wanna; we discussed this subject recently concerning costs. I am again not knocking the quality of the racing one bit. However, it is apparent you look at lots of pictures; but STILL have not read the rules for both series. To wit:

Minus its electronic fuel injection systems/data recorders/video guages and composite wing/front spoiler/skirts; a V8 Supercar is (take notes here...) a MODIFIED PRODUCTION CAR! They (Ford or Holden) are stock production unibodies (with rollcage and minimal front/rear chassis reinforcement) and are required to match stock dimensions, other than a measly 10mm flaring of fenders. Amateur SCCA racers are allowed more structural and body mods.

In contrast; a NASCAR Cup car is a TUBE FRAME SILHOUETTE RACE CAR. It is built from a pile of steel tubing and sheet metal. It's shape (only REMOTELY the same as its nameplate) must conform (within 1/16" in places!) to 2 dozen templates determined by extensive wind tunnel testing to equalize cars "representing" 3 (soon to be 4) manufacturers' cars. Without its "equalized" radiator cooling openings and painted/stickered headlights; 90% of the fans in the stands (or watching the tube) could not tell the make of engine/alledged make of car. The ONLY production part on ANY NASCAR car is a floorpan from a 1965-66 Ford Galaxie sedan. Everything else is aftermarket or fabricated.

Wanna K - we discussed this subject recently concerning costs. I am again not knocking the quality of the racing one bit. However, it is apparent you look at lots of pictures; but STILL have not read the rules for both series. To wit:

Minus its electronic fuel injection systems/data recorders/video guages and composite wing/front spoiler/skirts; a V8 Supercar is (take notes here...) a MODIFIED PRODUCTION CAR! They (Ford or Holden) are stock production unibodies (with rollcage and minimal front/rear chassis reinforcement) and are required to match stock dimensions, other than a measly 10mm flaring of fenders. Amateur SCCA racers are allowed more structural and body mods.

In contrast; a NASCAR Cup car is a TUBE FRAME SILHOUETTE RACE CAR. It is built from a pile of steel tubing and sheet metal. It's shape (only REMOTELY the same as its nameplate) must conform (within 1/16" in places!) to 2 dozen templates determined by extensive wind tunnel testing to equalize cars "representing" 3 (soon to be 4) manufacturers' cars. Without its "equalized" radiator cooling openings and painted/stickered headlights; 90% of the fans in the stands (or watching the tube) could not tell the make of engine/alledged make of car. The ONLY production part on ANY NASCAR car is a floorpan from a 1965-66 Ford Galaxie sedan. Everything else is aftermarket or fabricated.

Steve, That was almost insulting saying that I only look at pictures regarding the supercars. I am more than well aware of the rules and regualtions regarding the supercars and attend several race meets each year. I more or less asked a question as to how you justify a NASCAR being more advanced than a supercar, There was no offence intended.

Body shape construction aside I still fail to see where NASCAR's are more advanced. Body aside the mechanicals of the supercars seem a little more advanced than what is used in the NASCAR's which was my point.

I agree with you on one point and the best quote I have ever heard regarding both NASCAR and the V8 Supercars is the 'what worked in the 80's works now' attitude and that is why its so popular with the fans today.

I understand this is the truck series, But I guess there are several similarities between the truck series and NASCAR's. This is the only V8 supercar vs NASCAR comparison I have been able to find:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAlWsiYqd9c

While I am on the subject what are the rules regarding the radiators in NASCAR's? I have heard they vary greatly from race to race.

The picture comment was rude; mybad. A top 10 worst workday in 5 years followed the absolute slowest; NOBODY paints during torrential rain!

Decades ago, SCCA sedan classes were filled with Datsuns, Toyotas, BMWs, etc. that were production cars with rollcages installed. Amateur racers could build them in their carports. Nowadays, these (GT1-5) classes are scratch-built silhouette race cars. A tube-frame AE86 Corolla (lookalike!) bare chassis can cost $40K. You can buy a 6-point rollcage for a Datsun 510 for $200! Did I mention sequential shift trannies and Old Minis converted to FR? So much for "amateur" racing.

I have read all 46(?) pages of V8SC tech regs. I take pains to politely point out that these cars start with a production car unibody shell. Modifying this body shell costs (adjusted for exchange rates/taxes) a small fraction of what it costs to build a NASCAR chassis/body from scratch. The higher tech aspect of V8SC is limited to add-on/bolt-on intake, electronic, and aero components.

V8SC and NASCAR use production-based pushrod iron V8s (of US GM/Ford parent company ancestry); and are therefore stone age tech compared to DTM. As fine a long block assembly as is available for sale within the rules of both series could be had for $50K USD (in the US). Teardown, inspection, and reassembly of a non-broken F1, INDY, or LeMans engine would cost more than that.

Both series have rigid rules governing internal components, compression ratio, port dimensions, etc. Both use stone age live rear axles. Where the V8SC is higher tech is in EFI and standardized electronics (VERBOTEN in NASCAR). NASCAR has recently mandated limits on axle ratios after some teams have exceeded 10,000 rpm. V8SC has been limiting this electronically for some time.

I could see standardized component EFI as a possible future evolution of NASCAR; but I can also forsee problems. 10-20 MIL USD could buy lots of hackers; and a repeat of the electronic excesses in F1 a decade+ ago when laser telemetry downloaded details of the last lap while simultaneously uploading new programming for the next lap. Better 'puter nerds could win a race instead of the driver or mechanics. We do NOT need that guano/mierda in racing on ANY continent!

A couple of years ago, Penske driver Ryan Newman (ME, Purdue) stretched fuel mileage in several races to a degree that had other teams screaming about cheating. It turned out that Penske had been able to tune their engines for a wider power band at some tracks/races using a smaller carb for a single-digit peak hp loss. THAT's racing ingenuity!

The radiator opening shape/location for each make is set by official wind tunnel testing. Teams are free to tape off as much as they wish (they tape LOTS for 2 lap qualifying!) depending on air temp. They often add/remove tape during the race. On a short oval (Martinsville) or road course, the cars generate HUGE amounts of brake, trans, and diff heat; and are allowed LOTS of extra cooling intakes. Every cfm of air that goes into a cooling intake is downforce lost.

Thankyou for that, It seems to me that NASCAR and V8 supercars are quite similar in many respects and very different in others.

So long as the racing is competitive and enjoyable I dont really mind.

you gotta be kidding dude DTM cars use bespoke prototype racing engines

V8 supercars have no resemblence to road going HSV's excluding the body.


ook, sorry, the car i meant was the HSV Clubsport R.. here some stats:

-BODY: Steel, 4 doors, 1-2 seats
-Drivetrain: Front engine(north south), rear drive
-Engine: 5.7 Litre V8, OHV, 16v
-Power: 285kw @ 5800rpm
-Torque: 510nm @ 4800rpm
-Transmission: 6 speed manual
-Size, L/W/H: 4890/1842/1450mm
-Wheelbase: 2788mm
-Weight: 1497
-0-100km/h: Not available
-0-400metres: Not available
-Price: $100k-$130k aud

a few engine mods that have been given to the Clubsport R for track preperation

Track prep, HRT style. Stock LS1 gets a bigger exhaust, (no cats), ECU tweaks with lowered peak RPM(6250), baffled sump, under-driven ancillaries, semi-rigid mounts, beefier cooling(oil, water, steer), anti-surge fuel system.

I know what you are talking about now, They are a bunch of modified VY S2 Clubsports made for racing. Not for public sale either from memory.

There are also VZ models as well equipped with the LS2, From memory the 285kw LS1's had 520nm not 510 which is what the Callaway tuned GTS'S had.

wanna k; SPEED TV has a link to V8SC, but it is empty. I want to see more of that stuff!

The video of the Greg Murphy(?) qual/lap record at Bathurst is balls-to-the-wall! On TOCA 2, I WISH I could get away with using the shoulder/margins he uses! I note that the official site talks of paid video. Is there any live online timing/scoring available for free? I will be jonesin' for motorsports soon.

wanna k; SPEED TV has a link to V8SC, but it is empty. I want to see more of that stuff!

The video of the Greg Murphy(?) qual/lap record at Bathurst is balls-to-the-wall! On TOCA 2, I WISH I could get away with using the shoulder/margins he uses! I note that the official site talks of paid video. Is there any live online timing/scoring available for free? I will be jonesin' for motorsports soon.

Here is the Greg Murphy lap of Bathurst in the Top 10 shootout of 2003, It is still the all time lap record.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kmkUVSVHoc8

I guess you could try the V8 supercar website with the live footage if it is working at the moment. For whatever reason the site sometimes has problems and doesnt work.

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/calendars/clndrevent.asp?eid=200&ind=M

Mark Skaife put the HRT#2 car on pole position for race 1 at symmons plains today. Rick Kelly is the new championship leader after Craig Lowndes finished 27.

Hope that was a help, Next year there may be more available on the net with the tv rights moving to Channel 7 from Network 10.

I hope they improve internet viewing services for the sport. If you can watchg the supercars on your phone why not on the internet.

I know what you are talking about now, They are a bunch of modified VY S2 Clubsports made for racing. Not for public sale either from memory.

There are also VZ models as well equipped with the LS2, From memory the 285kw LS1's had 520nm not 510 which is what the Callaway tuned GTS'S had.

they were for public sale, but wernt cheap... its been a while since it was released, approx. 8 months.. so its not very new..

what top speeds dp they have roughly

they were for public sale, but wernt cheap... its been a while since it was released, approx. 8 months.. so its not very new..

I am pretty sure that you could lease them for track days but not keep them if that makes sense. Sort of like the old Ferrari F1's that rich people could lease.

what top speeds dp they have roughly

Roughly around 280km/h.