practically the title said it....

but who do u guys think is the "all time best"

Senna all the way!

both for me are all-time drivers. You can't compare they goals cause they where achieved in diferent times with diferent technologies. So for me they are the best........

I've never seen Senna race before but I'd say he is the best all the time.
I've watch Discovery Channel and they said that Senna was the best.

He actually didn't want to race on that day.. his GF called him not to.. he said okay but he went to race. Thats what I heard from the TV, no BS. He is a talented guy.. such a waste.

well schumi holds more records. so i gotta go with micheal on this one.

I've never seen Senna race before but I'd say he is the best all the time.
I've watch Discovery Channel and they said that Senna was the best.


An opinion should be your own. You'd say he's the best of all time because someone else thinks that?

I'm sorry for that.. but for me own opinion..
Senna is better. Schumi has hold a lot of records so? Its not about the record all the time.

To avoid missing out on about a minute of your life, just read the bold print.

I did not watch F1 when I was 5 and younger, so as far as watching Senna race I come up empty handed.

In todays world you have to say Michael because he holds so much in his name, including F1 itself, he is the face of F1, that should be was. I have seen Michael race and I am happy I have seen him do so before he retired.

So lets stop wasting time and go to the question at hand. I really cannot say who was the best, yes they each hold a bunch of records, but each had different skilled opponents, they each were the fastest most of the time when they race, but the cars have changed. Each has a legazy that is known by just saying their name.

So in the end I refuse to vote on a single one in this comparo, the facts are just not there to say which is better, opinions wise you can make argumens for each, but if you were a neutral party you would be split.

I was a Schumi fan, and I am sad he has gone, and I will always remember his do not quit attitude, especially in the last race of the 06 season. If i had a gun to my head I would vote schumi just because I have actually seen him race.

I have a theory on this topic, and in my theory i express my opinion that schumi is indeed better. Because they both did get to race together, and according to me schumi was a little better than senna, which made senna push himselfe to the limit just to fight for the championship. This effort caused him his life, in other words schumi pushed senna to his death just because he was better. Some people may say that benetton was cheating by breaking regulations on the car which they did during that season but it is still to minial to make much of a difference. So Schumi is hands down better in my opinion.

Schumi does all hold most of the records and achieved them quicker in some cases which probably earnt him the title as the best; however they raced in times with different technologies which makes them incomparable.

Shoemaker might have the records, but he doesn't have the flair or personality of Senna.

Senna = hero

Shoemaker = human business (whore?)

[Shoemaker might have the records, but he doesn't have the flair or personality of Senna.]

First of it's Schumacher. Second it is very true that both legends have very different personalities but they are closely related. They are both individuals that pushed the limits on themselves, their machines and forced competitors to up their abilities. I believe that Senna was the more emotion of the two from the videos, articles and pictures I've seen. He embodied what a racer should be and a pure racing spirit during his life time.

See if I care how it's spelled. Shoemaker is not only easier to remember, but denotes the level of respect I have for him. Which is none, by the way.

And yes, if anyone's wondering, I do refer to that ugly VW as the "toerag" on purpose. Someone tell me why and I'll ship them a beer.

bindings wound around the feet of convicts or tramps in the 19th century. Also a place in Africa but....... lol my english isn't that good to look beyond what is in front.....

could it be that your trying to say he's a rascal/scallyway.

scroungrer, thief, Ne'er-do-well.....

well i'll go with senna, first of all schumi does dirty tricks sometimes and secondly the technology in the cars with senna is much more difficult to drive those days. Yet senna owned everyone.

Senna did the same if not worse drty tricks, like crashing into Mansell on the first turn of Suzuka in 93, to win the championship, thats cheap. and they did race together.

As you have mentioned before that Michael Schumacher holds all the records , but IMO that doesn't make him the all time best F1 driver . I have to put my personal opinion in this thread , i will get away from records and from all those victories and i will say that the "great" Ayrton Senna is the all time best Formula one driver. that man dominated Formula one , he has a pure talent , he was arrogant , he was VERY Charismatic , but he had a really good heart . Senna used to drive with Passion , he was just brilliant ! He was extremely fast and he had a strong heart to back him up . You may tell me that Michael beats his records etc...... but look how time Michael took to break Senna's records, Senna was the fastest driver , He was the king of "Poles", he had his own school of driving .....and after the death of Senna , Michael dominated F1 . So in my opinion , Ayrton Senna is a legend , and he is IMO the best F1 driver my eyes have ever seen. (of course no disrespect to Schumacher whom i also love , he is definetly an amazing driver no doubt about that. )

Senna is overrated because of his early death. Yes, he was a hell of a driver, but he wasn't as good as Schumi. Schumi has won more championships and holds a hell of a lot more records than Senna.

To avoid missing out on about a minute of your life, just read the bold print.

I did not watch F1 when I was 5 and younger, so as far as watching Senna race I come up empty handed.

In todays world you have to say Michael because he holds so much in his name, including F1 itself, he is the face of F1, that should be was. I have seen Michael race and I am happy I have seen him do so before he retired.

So lets stop wasting time and go to the question at hand. I really cannot say who was the best, yes they each hold a bunch of records, but each had different skilled opponents, they each were the fastest most of the time when they race, but the cars have changed. Each has a legazy that is known by just saying their name.

So in the end I refuse to vote on a single one in this comparo, the facts are just not there to say which is better, opinions wise you can make argumens for each, but if you were a neutral party you would be split.

I was a Schumi fan, and I am sad he has gone, and I will always remember his do not quit attitude, especially in the last race of the 06 season. If i had a gun to my head I would vote schumi just because I have actually seen him race.

Great minds think alike.

I've grown up watching Schumacher just rip everyone to pieces, and that's the way it will stay in my mind.

I don't care about all his controversies, I saw Monaco 2006 happen before my very eyes and I just knew he didn't do it deliberately.

He's not like that.

But TK has a good point. Senna is slightly overrated. There should have been more of a battle between them.

Schumi does all hold most of the records and achieved them quicker in some cases which probably earnt him the title as the best; however they raced in times with different technologies which makes them incomparable.

Exactly, it's like comparing Fangio with Schumi...it's just not gonna happen. In the past these F1 drivers would be driving the Grand Prix one week, then a 24 hour race the next, there is no way drivers would be able to do that now because of the way technology has moved on.

Shoemaker might have the records, but he doesn't have the flair or personality of Senna.

Senna = hero

Shoemaker = human business (whore?)


i absolutly agree

schumacher only dominated in a more tech advanced time where the car mattered more then the driver so its senna all the way for me.


P.S. I think Bourdais is beter then schumacher too

Senna was the pinnacle of his time, which was cut short. I would bet a years salary that if Senna had not died Schuey would not have so many records to his name, remember Senna was still young and at his prime, and Schuey was still young. i would quite easily say Schuey and Villnaueve(if u can spell it congratulations) and possibly Damon Hill wouldnt have as many titles, if any, next to their names.

yea i got to agree with TPscribble, he's totally right in my books!

To Import Fan. There is a reason why bordais isnt in f1, he is self obsessed driver that is so blinded by his 3 champcar titles that he doesnt realise he isnt ready for f1. He makes stupid mistakes as we saw in the surfers paradise round and he wouldnt function well as a team member in f1 where all the praise and focus isnt placed on him. Schuey/alonso/kimi would destroy him. Kovalienen got the extra renault seat, which bordais wrongly believed was his right because he is french, because he put in the hard work as a tester and didnt just expect to be thrown a drivers role because he won another championship. Bordais never accepted the testers role and now it has bitten him in the ass.

schumacher only dominated in a more tech advanced time where the car mattered more then the driver so its senna all the way for me.


That's stupid. He 'only' dominated because of technical advancement? His car isn't technically superior to everyone else's. And is it his fault there's been development? You can't take away from his achievement's because his technology has moved on. That's hugely unfair. Senna won in a crapper car (slight exaggeration) so that mean's he's better, please. I was going to rant more but I feel hungover and I want to watch Ice Age 2 so I might do it later.

Why would people think schumi's better just because he won more title....like comon Senna fell short in his life. And you have to say Senna was driving with no semi-auto gearbox....it was a totally manual...and yet HE STILL LAPPED 5 cars in the first lap..... you have to give credit to that hero!

I do give credit to him. He was an awesome driver. One of the best F1 pilots ever... but not as good as Schumacher, in my opinion.

The only reason Senna died is because he crashed right into a wall where it hit the part right between the intake and the wheel. right???

Or maybe it was just because he crashed into a wall, head on at high speed?


Have they confirmed what it was that caused him to lose steering?

That Honda V-6 turbo was a beast...

Hard decision, but i'm goign with senna because...

That Honda V-6 turbo was a beast...

LOL!

I have read a few articles speculating that the Williams team did not shorten the steering column as requested by Senna. They went on to say the steering malfunction caused Senna to crash into the wall. The article also says that he was still alive though semi-conscious before they took him to the hospital where he died.

I would go for schumi. senna was great, died to young. but I think schumi will be at the top in the recordbooks for a long time.

as a driver in the record books, Schumi OWNES, but as a sportsman and personality, Senna.
Remember, Schu onto others as you would have them Schu onto you.

So what really happened to that crash????

I dont know much about Senna so I'm with Schumi on this one...though both are legends in their own rights...

Not to use a different example of this. Muhammad Ali may not have been undefeated. Does he have all the records...no. But do I think he's the best boxer of all time...yes.

Michael Jordan didn't win as many championships as Bill Russell or get as many defensive players of the year. He didn't score, rebound or dominate the game as much as Wilt Chamberlain. Is Michael Jordan the best basketball player of all time? yes.

I honestly love Schumi, and I'm glad I got to watch him before he left the sport. Never saw much footage of Senna, but I heard he was real good. I can't help but go for Schumi just because he was in my "era" of F1. Although, I heard that Honda V-6 turbo was a beast. LOL!

Yea the Honda V-6 turbo at that time was extremely fast...

it was so fast that their technology for safety haven't caught up. that is probably why Senna died?

all i understand about the crash is that he was going EXTREMELY fast on a turn and lost control.....which resulted in a head on collision right between the intake and the wheel.

correct me if im wrong!

senna crashed during the 1994 Monaco GP on the Imola circuit, his car left the track at 190mph and hit the wall at 137mph, give or take, from what i undertand he was killed by a part of the suspension that hit him in the head during the crash, but there are many other factors as well,if im wrong on any of this please correct me

here are a few vids. of the crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO7TLawduHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219v4ZhbiZ0

senna crashed during the 1994 Monaco GP on the Imola circuit, his car left the track at 190mph and hit the wall at 137mph, give or take, from what i undertand he was killed by a part of the suspension that hit him in the head during the crash, but there are many other factors as well,if im wrong on any of this please correct me

here are a few vids. of the crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO7TLawduHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219v4ZhbiZ0

Pretty much damn spot on.....except for the bit about how he died. But you're not wrong. Nobody will ever know how he died. There's the suspension theory you posted, there's things like he was suffering from manic depression and drove into the wall in an act of suicide, and there are things like the rear diffuser scraped on the tarmac, causing the car to momentarily lose 100% of its downforce, thus propelling Senna into the wall. There are things likme the steering wheel column was not weilded into place properly before the race began, and it snapped when he was turning.

There are so many possibilities. If only Senna had survived, he would be racing to this day and telling us what really happened on May 1st, 1994.

Good post though.

Welcome to SCF, you seem like a good member.

i guess the incident really stays as a mystery!

and maybe it is because he went head first into a barrier?

Pretty much damn spot on.....except for the bit about how he died. But you're not wrong. Nobody will ever know how he died. There's the suspension theory you posted, there's things like he was suffering from manic depression and drove into the wall in an act of suicide, and there are things like the rear diffuser scraped on the tarmac, causing the car to momentarily lose 100% of its downforce, thus propelling Senna into the wall. There are things likme the steering wheel column was not weilded into place properly before the race began, and it snapped when he was turning.

There are so many possibilities. If only Senna had survived, he would be racing to this day and telling us what really happened on May 1st, 1994.

Good post though.

Welcome to SCF, you seem like a good member.

thanks, i do my best

I dont think that he went head first into the barrier during the crash.

The right front wheel had been ripped off his car, and all the nosecone was crushed, so it was a full head on impact into a concrete wall.

Ouch! now i see...thanks for your facts!