After a two-week break, F1 rears back into action with this weekend's European GP.

Held at the Nurburgring, this circuit was criticised in the past as being unchallenging and pedestrian, but it's got a bit better over the years with the odd change here and there.

As the second half of the season gets under way, sensation Lewis Hamilton still leads the championship by 12 points over his slightly digruntled team-mate Fernando Alonso.

The McLaren's have been beaten fair and square in the last two races by Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen, who has scored a double race win and is looking for the triple this weekend. He lies 18 points beind Hamilton, whilst his Braziloain team-mate has not really performed since his double wins in Bahrain and Spain. He lies 1 point behind Raikkonen and 19 points the leader.

So, will the Reds prevail and Raikkonen do the great Schumacher justice at one of his most successful tracks?

Will the Brazilian put his past troubles behind him and put his championship right back on track?

Will the Spaniard get things on and make a move?

Or will the Brit put in another stunning performance to deny the Scuderia?

All will be revealed this weekend, and it's looking like it's going to be a highly competitve GP.

So far it's 1-1 in Practice, with Lewis taking the lead in P1, but with Raikkonen striking back in P2. Also, Button in 8th place, get in there!!

P1:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40083

P2: (Button early pacesetter, but up to 8th again. This is extremely encouraging for Honda, and for me, only half a second off Raikkonen's Ferrari.)
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40090

So, post away guys and girls.

I think it will be a fantastic race.

Hamilton still awesome, Alonso getting back up there, Kimi with brilliant new found speed, and Massa showed last race that he has the skills.

My moneys on Kimi, but it should be a very close race and a tense qualifying session i think.

My money is still on Massa
hes due a break and lewis is due a breakdown

I think that red bull could have chance at some points this weekend since they have made good improvements

I predict another great race with Raikonnen winning (again :D) and I also predict an Hamilton DNF with Massa 2nd and Alonso 3rd. Also has it is soughta BMW's home GP it will be good for them to get on the podium but I can't see it.

I will put my money on Raikkonen for the victory tomorrow. Massa on the podium if all goes well, but I'm not sure about Alonso. Hamilton will be doing very very well, yes, and he's proved he can hold his own, and that his car has the pace because he was fastest in P1. Alonso hasn't been really that fast all throughout today's sessions, so we have to wait and see what happens to him.

-7700-

Ahh back to racing on the cheatin....er.....Formula 1 circuit.:)


Predictions for the race, I say Kimi keeps building on his resurgance and wins the Germanring. Hamilton gets another podium in second, and Nick Heidfeld wows the home crowd and gets 3rd. At least thats what I would like to happen. Massa 4th and Alonso 5th. The other BMW and a Williams of Nico get 6 and 7 and a wild card to 8th.

Bennyboy, I wouldn't shine to bright of a light on Button's practice time, because practice pace usually has little meaning to race pace, although a points finish isn't far fetched, especially if he gets a solid Q run. Remember Monaco and Sutil. Not trying to be a kill joy, just a realist.

Can't wait for the Mclaren Duo to win this race. I'm all in for Alonso and hamilton.

mclaren all the way for alonso & hamilton!!

My money is on BMW. Go go. C'mon Heidfeld and Kubica. I want on of these drivers to be in the podium. Or both of them. But it's a difficult thing.

Here are the results for the qualifying round of the 2007 European GP.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5413/untitlednf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Qualifying doesn't start here in another 5 minutes. But i've been watching live timing and it was pretty good. It's nice to see the Ferrari's coming 1st and 3rd.

As for Mclaren, Alonso did a great job and came 2nd, but i have no idea what happened to Hamilton. According to the commentary he crashed near the S bend, due to a problem with his right-front wheel which was caused by his previous pit stop. But he suffered no injuries which is good to hear.

I also voted Ferrari on the poll since they were in very good form in Qualifying and i think that will continue to the race.

Yeah, just over, here. Hamiliton crashed, but that crash meant that Massa couldn't finish a stunning lap he had going and the drivers had only one lap after to set a timed lap, so it was tight.

Although, since Hamilton destroyed the car, unless they can rebuild that car he has to start from 21st in the pits, thats if they let him, but he seems fine now to race

It wasn't so good. Hamilton's tire blew. The news are saying that their teammates did a mistake in Hamilton's pit stop.
But i think that the time Hamilton was in the track he pushed the brakes so hard and the wheels were blocked. Especially the right one. Also he had the soft tyres so the crash may be due to the hard braking.
Or maybe the pressure from the tires changed so fast and the tire blew. Who knows?
Kimi is the pollman.
BMW to the 4th and to the 5th place. Good. Tomorrow we will see a good race.

Oh look Kimi is on the podium once again (:D) so do some people still think Kimi is running on luck ?????

Hamilton crashed quite bad and I very doubt he will race tommorow ! Thats ok that means Kimi & Massa can carry on destroying McLarens lead in both the drivers and construcors championships.

We will really see if Hamilton is as good has people say he his if he races tommorow and manages to climb through the field which I can't personally see myself but hey.

RESULTS - It went to commercial before I could get the other 2
1 - RAI
2 - ALO
3 - MAS
4 - HEI
5 - KUB
6 - WEB
7 - KOV
8 - TRU

full results for yeh then
1. RAIKKONEN Ferrari

2. ALONSO McLaren

3. MASSA Ferrari

4. HEIDFELD BMW

5. KUBICA BMW

6. WEBBER Red Bull

7. KOVALAINEN Renault

8. TRULLI Toyota

9. SCHUMACHER Toyota

10. HAMILTON McLaren

11. ROSBERG Williams

12. WURZ Williams

13. FISICHELLA Renault

14. BARRICHELLO Honda

15. DAVIDSON Super Aguri

16. SATO Super Aguri

17. BUTTON Honda

18. SPEED Toro Rosso

19. LIUZZI Toro Rosso

20. COULTHARD Red Bull

21. SUTIL Spyker

22. WINKELHOCK Spyker

hamilton crashed during qualifying i didnt know that ohh no... thats bad for mclaren

hamilton crashed during qualifying i didnt know that ohh no... thats bad for mclaren
Just to mention this. Hamilton didn't do any mistake. The right tire is responsible for this or the mechanics. Maybe a fault from them .

Umm, wesleypipes and sonic, you guys didn't have to post up the qualifying results because i have already posted them up before in post #10.

hamilton crashed during qualifying i didnt know that ohh no... thats bad for mclaren

Like what turbinas said, it's not Hamilton's fault. It's his mechanic's fault for not putting on the tyre tight enough with the rattle gun during Hamilton's pit stop as i have heard...

Noooooooooo!

Glad it wasnt Hamiltons fault but still a big mistake by the mechanic. Could be a failure on the gun or something.

Hopefully he'll race tomorrow and stun the world by coming from tenth on to the podium!

Noooooooooo!

Glad it wasnt Hamiltons fault but still a big mistake by the mechanic. Could be a failure on the gun or something.

Hopefully he'll race tomorrow and stun the world by coming from tenth on to the podium!

It wasn't the mechanics fault it was the gun according to Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh.

HA HA !

You're wishing aren't you because well Massa couldn't do it so I doubt Hamilton would do it besides it is very doubtful he will not race tommorow because after a crash like that it might be best for him to rest for a couple of days and then get back in a F1 car.

My sister's went to Germany for that Grand Prix this weekend and she phoned me beforehand to look out of her on the tv. I wasn't really sure what corner she was talking about until she phoned me again and said, "Lewis has crashed right in front of us."

I still have a feeling that he shouldn't be counted out for tomorrow's race.

It wasn't the mechanics fault it was the gun according to Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh.

HA HA !

You're wishing aren't you because well Massa couldn't do it so I doubt Hamilton would do it besides it is very doubtful he will not race tommorow because after a crash like that it might be best for him to rest for a couple of days and then get back in a F1 car.

haha mclaren have said hamilton is fit to race tomorrow. Heres the link: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/070721/2/u2qv.html

that was close but im glad he can race.

"There is at this moment in time absolutely no medical reason that he can't race," team boss Ron Dennis told reporters after the 22-year-old Briton returned to the paddock from hospital after a heavy crash in qualifying.

Go Bmw!!:D

My sister's went to Germany for that Grand Prix this weekend and she phoned me beforehand to look out of her on the tv. I wasn't really sure what corner she was talking about until she phoned me again and said, "Lewis has crashed right in front of us."

I still have a feeling that he shouldn't be counted out for tomorrow's race.

As you and RICH said, there is nothing wrong with Hamilton, so why would he not race ?

Ron Dennis said the windy gun failled, didn't give the nut the right torque setting, hence it came lose, but the safety pin did it's job and kept the wheel on. Possibly the situation that happened was worse than if the wheel had had come off.

But, it's easily a possiblity Hamilton could end up on the podium. I'm looking forward to it, as it's the first chance we'll see for Hamilton to really show us what he can do, and how he can really race. He's got some hella tougha competition to come up against, ushc as Kubica, and Massa, but he already showed his class against Massa at the beginning of the season. Should be a goody.

Up front, my money is on Alonso. He's been consistent, where as raikkonen has not. Ferrari may have the fastest car, but consistency is also a major factor in F1. Either way, it's gona be a hell of a race now.

I meant don't count him out for a win/podium finish, for the record.

I just saw Hamilton's crash and it was BIG and bad, if there were no tires there, it would have been almost if not worse than Kubica's crash in Canada. Good to see that he is going to be able to race because that was a big crash. Now we will see what he is made of, he rarely has passed anyone on track because he is always at the front, now he needs to gaoin 7 spots to keep his podium streak alive.

I still think that Kimi will win though and I hope Hammy makes it up to at least 3rd.

Bennyboy, I wouldn't shine to bright of a light on Button's practice time, because practice pace usually has little meaning to race pace, although a points finish isn't far fetched, especially if he gets a solid Q run. Remember Monaco and Sutil. Not trying to be a kill joy, just a realist.

At like, 8am this morning I had a dream that Button was running third behind Raikkonen and Massa and he had a heavy fuel load and was looking basically at a cemented 3rd place and possibly a shot at 2nd or the win.

Then I woke up.

:(

But, I know what you're saying and I completely respect and understand it. Practice times are done with low fuel loads and soft tyres, and they're banzai laps. I was thinking ''oh Button will probably end up in 14th'' but it was really really disappointing for him to line up 17th because I really think they had the pace to move up a few more places after that.

Still, if he's fuelled heavy and he can make up a few places in the early laps he could grab a point or two which wouldn't be too bad.

Yeah, just over, here. Hamiliton crashed, but that crash meant that Massa couldn't finish a stunning lap he had going and the drivers had only one lap after to set a timed lap, so it was tight.

Although, since Hamilton destroyed the car, unless they can rebuild that car he has to start from 21st in the pits, thats if they let him, but he seems fine now to race

Massa did have another chance, he got one lap in, but he wasn't fast enough. That's through no fault of Hamiltons, it's just he didn't set a quick enough lap time to he ended up third.

If Hamilton has to use the T car he will start from the pit lane, but as they said on ITV's coverage of the race, the main monocoque of the MP4-22 looks in fairly good condition, it's basically the front end which is really mashed up. The mechanics could have a shot at rebuilding the car for tomorrow.

It wasn't so good. Hamilton's tire blew. The news are saying that their teammates did a mistake in Hamilton's pit stop.
But i think that the time Hamilton was in the track he pushed the brakes so hard and the wheels were blocked. Especially the right one. Also he had the soft tyres so the crash may be due to the hard braking.
Or maybe the pressure from the tires changed so fast and the tire blew. Who knows?
Kimi is the pollman.
BMW to the 4th and to the 5th place. Good. Tomorrow we will see a good race.

It was nothing to do with the tyre; it didn't blow. It wasn't the mechanics fault anyway, it was the wheel gun's fault because as Sparky said, it wasn't on the right torque setting.

It had nothing to do with tyre pressure, brake pressure, anything like that. It was the way the wheel was put onto the car which unfortunately caused Hamilton to crash.

haha mclaren have said hamilton is fit to race tomorrow. Heres the link: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/070721/2/u2qv.html

that was close but im glad he can race.

"There is at this moment in time absolutely no medical reason that he can't race," team boss Ron Dennis told reporters after the 22-year-old Briton returned to the paddock from hospital after a heavy crash in qualifying.

Lewis has been provosionally cleared to race (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40118), but he'll go through another medical check tomorrow morning to see if he's 100% fit.

Hamilton is one of the fittest guys in the pit lane, I see no reason why he cannot race tomorrow.

But, I mean my god, what a hectic qualifying session. It was a really hectic morning for me aswell, excited because my next door neighbour got a brand new 997 Carrera S, extremely sad because of Ollie Bridewell, anxious because of Hamilton, stunned to see Hamilton in the barriers!

But, I must say, Raikkonen is definitely the form man and I think safe bets would be on him to win the race tomorrow. He has the pace with the car, and he's gelled into that machine like no other. He's strong over the long runs aswell, and he's quicker than his team-mate, and he crucially starts 2 places behind him.

But I think Hero of the Day should go to Fernando Alonso. Having that huge moment in the middle of the lap, and then only finishing up around 3 tenths of a second off the fantastic lap from Raikkonen? Had he not had that error he would have been on poll by at least a good half a second. Respect to him for getting it wound up right; just shows the skills of Fernando Alonso.

But, story of the day, Lewis' crash. Unfortunately I was on the phone and away from the TV when he crashed but came back with the TV on mute to see the back of a McLaren stuck in the tyres and me shouting ''Oh My God Hamilton!'' down the phone to a friend. :p

Very very heavy impact that was, literally flew straight into the barriers after he bounced over the gravel. At first when he got out of the car I thought that his left arm was badly broken, but I just think he got really winded after that. I think he's going to be up and rearing to go for the race tomorrow, which is what we all want to see. Coming from 10th on the grid will be a hell of a task to get a podium, but I believe he can do it. He's got a good fuel load and he's got the skills, so don't count him out for a podium.

But disappointing for Button again...down in 17th place. They really need to get their bums into gear. It's all well and good saying they have improved but not churning those claims onto the racetrack is useless. Hopefully he has a good fuel load and will finish in the points.

Bring on tomorrow, and I think it's going to be a great race.

Qualifying report:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40108

Kimi is sooo gonna win the race tommorow !!!!!!!!

To all the Hamilton fanboys: If you think he his gonna be on the podium (if he races) think again for 2 reasons:

1) Who is to say that the McLaren guys are gonna get his car fixed and prepared for tomorrows race in time ??? If not he will have to start from the pitlane because he would be using the team car.

2) There are more talented drivers in the field i.e. Kubica, Kovaleinen & Webber in his way and they will do everything they can to stop him from overtaking them and if I was Kubica I would be enjoying this weekend because this is Kubicas time to show the world 'I'm a better driver than Hamilton and this race was the proof'.

It was nothing to do with the tyre; it didn't blow. It wasn't the mechanics fault anyway, it was the wheel gun's fault because as Sparky said, it wasn't on the right torque setting.

It had nothing to do with tyre pressure, brake pressure, anything like that. It was the way the wheel was put onto the car which unfortunately caused Hamilton to crash.
Ok ok. We now cleared it. But at first i didn't know that it was the mechanics fault. Now i know it. All clear.

But just to mention something. The tyre can blow due to the tyre pressure. More pressure the tire is going fat. So if the pressure is so high the tire can blow.
I know that brake pressure is a bit too much. But it's a way to blow the tire.
So now all cleared. :)


The 2 BMW's must do a great race. Go go Bimmer. Let the others fight. :D

Alonso was in the same position a while back to, 10th position, and i think we remeber how that went. Not great.
Plus Hamiliton has a bad fuel load going into this, the same as Alonso had, so it could go good or bad, lets just wait and see

Kimi is sooo gonna win the race tommorow !!!!!!!!

To all the Hamilton fanboys: If you think he his gonna be on the podium (if he races) think again for 2 reasons:

1) Who is to say that the McLaren guys are gonna get his car fixed and prepared for tomorrows race in time ??? If not he will have to start from the pitlane because he would be using the team car.

2) There are more talented drivers in the field i.e. Kubica, Kovaleinen & Webber in his way and they will do everything they can to stop him from overtaking them and if I was Kubica I would be enjoying this weekend because this is Kubicas time to show the world 'I'm a better driver than Hamilton and this race was the proof'.

Don't you ever come on again and call anyone a "fanboy". You are without a doubt the most obnoxious, biased, and more of a "fanboy" than anyone else who posts in these threads. You may like ferrari, and kimi, but rather pointless and ignorant opinions are starting to become stupid.

For one, Those drivers are not more talented than Hamilton. This is why Hamilton races for Mclaren, and why he is leading the championship. Don't give me that, the best car crap, as the double world champion is also using it. Of course those drivers are going to be trying to stop him passing, this is the general idea of F1, not your blind idolisation of Kimi being at the front and finishing the race in reverse.

For your comment on the car, as far as the rules go, I think they only have to lift the engine from the car that was crashed. Why the hell would they use a crashed chassis ? Safety regulations wouldn't allow it never mind Mclaren wanting to rebuild it.

All I know is that Mclaren and Lewis Hamiton will have a tough job tomorrow. Alonso needs a good launch, as he has two men who will be crawling all over him to get ahead. But clearly Kimi is the fastest man in F1 at the moment. It's taken long enough to gel with the car, but he still seemed to show an inconcsistency in practice and qualifying which could hinder him in the race tomorrow. Alonso has all so gelled with his car, and has openly said it. The race at the front this weekend should be awesome, where as a Mclaren/BMW midfield battle shall be awesome to watch, and more than likely where the cameras shall be watching.

Have a good time watching it all tomora lads.

Don't you ever come on again and call anyone a "fanboy". You are without a doubt the most obnoxious, biased, and more of a "fanboy" than anyone else who posts in these threads. You may like ferrari, and kimi, but rather pointless and ignorant opinions are starting to become stupid.

For one, Those drivers are not more talented than Hamilton. This is why Hamilton races for Mclaren, and why he is leading the championship. Don't give me that, the best car crap, as the double world champion is also using it. Of course those drivers are going to be trying to stop him passing, this is the general idea of F1, not your blind idolisation of Kimi being at the front and finishing the race in reverse.

For your comment on the car, as far as the rules go, I think they only have to lift the engine from the car that was crashed. Why the hell would they use a crashed chassis ? Safety regulations wouldn't allow it never mind Mclaren wanting to rebuild it.

All I know is that Mclaren and Lewis Hamiton will have a tough job tomorrow. Alonso needs a good launch, as he has two men who will be crawling all over him to get ahead. But clearly Kimi is the fastest man in F1 at the moment. It's taken long enough to gel with the car, but he still seemed to show an inconcsistency in practice and qualifying which could hinder him in the race tomorrow. Alonso has all so gelled with his car, and has openly said it. The race at the front this weekend should be awesome, where as a Mclaren/BMW midfield battle shall be awesome to watch, and more than likely where the cameras shall be watching.

Have a good time watching it all tomora lads.

ha ha lol !

I am the first to admit I'm a Kimi fanboy but I'm realistic about his chances if you look at the past gp threads where Kimi wasn't doing so well I said I will like Kimi to be on the podium not Kimi should be on the podium like this:

US GP thread:

Well Hamilton won again YAY ! (not !!!)

Kimi needs to step up his game big time !

Alonso & Hamilton need to slow down lol !

and on the whole Hamilton thing lets be realistic he isn't going to be on the podium is he ???

Massa couldn't do it and he has Kubica who gave Massa an hard time at Silverstone to deal with so you really think Hamilton is gonna pass him ?

my god, no one even said that Hamilton would make it to a podium, yet your banging on about how everyone is and to give it up, we all know Hamiliton is a great racer, but we know hes going to have a hard time, it seems your the only ignornant enough not to notice that

What an absolute wack start. I believe the English call it a cockup!

World's richest series and nobody is smart enough to have weather spotters out...

HOLY ****
spyker is winning by miles. lol
but massa for 2nd, brilliant

and 7 people crashed into one corner, this is mental

Winkelhock in first excellent !!

Kimi what the hell happened ??????

Great race so far and a red flag :eek: (not surprising)

Hamilton is out!!! Nooo!!!!

Hamilton is out!!! Nooo!!!!

What hes 17th ?????????????

not out lol !

Well he is out of winning...

Thats what I meant.

The first part of this race is just chaos. 7 Cars aquaplaned onto the gravel traps in turn one. It's also very lucky that when Liuzzi aquaplaned that he didn't hit the tractor, it was a very close one. But it's nice to see the Ferrari's 1st and 4rd right now. Not bad keeping in mind Kimi missed the pint lane entry during the early stages of the race...

Also the weather patterns are crazy. First it's overcast, then to light rain, heavy rain and now sunny!

räikkönen has got problems with his car. lewis is doing well for his situation *touch wood*.

NOOOOOO

Kimi is out of the GP !

Man I'm annoyed :mad: !!!!

Kimi is sooo gonna win the race tommorow !!!!!!!!

sorry i had to quote that :D. I hope hamilton does well he has had some nice overtaking so far.

sorry i had to quote that :D. I hope hamilton does well he has had some nice overtaking so far.

Dude you had to rub it in didn't you lol ????

Kimi is F1's unluckiest driver without a doubt :( .

^^sorry hehe, alonso is ahead of massa, they touched tyres

^^sorry hehe, alonso is ahead of massa, they touched tyres

Yeah

The McLaren does look better than the Ferrari (I won't say that again lol) If I'm honest.

Here are the results of the 2007 European Grand Prix.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9591/untitledlf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Overall i was pretty disappointed with Kimi's hydraulics failure, despite missing the pit lane entry in the early stages of the race, he caught up and was doing good until he had to retire. As for Massa, he did a great job. But he wasn't quite quick enough in the end to defend his position from Alonso, but at least he did good throughout the race and set the fastest lap.

But wow, Red bull did a good job in the race coming 3rd and 5th respectively. It's also nice to see Mark Webber came 3rd. Awesome performance by him, finally a good result. This is his 2nd time on the podium i think next to Monaco.

Anyways it was a great race, it was very hectic as well, especially in the beginning with all the heavy rain and cars started aquaplaning into turn one. Bring on the Hungarian GP in 2 weeks time!

Winkelhock is my hero, leading the race at the beginning and opening up a 35 second gap! Was that not the most awesome thing since Sato passed Alonso at Montreal? :p

It was a very good race, good rain driving for Alonso, though Massa would have had it in the bag if it stayed dry. Good result for Webber, though I was cheering for Wurz at the end there. Good racing overall though and I must say Alonso's pass on Massa was perfectly clean.

Oh, and a kudos to the BMW teammates for knocking each other out on the first lap, I'm glad they finished but Heidfeld was driving a bit too aggressively.

The coverage of that race summed up ITV's F1 coverage :

CRAP !

Which BRITISH driver started in 20th and finished 5th ??

David Coulthard

Which BRITISH driver started in 10th but finished 9th ??

Lewis Hamilton

Which BRITISH driver had the more successful race ??

David Coulthard

Yet which british driver had more of the attention ??

Lewis Hamilton

I'm not having a dig at Hamilton here I'm having a dig at the ITV coverage which seems to care more about how Hamilton finishes/how well he drives than any other Brit driver, ok he is probably Britains best hope at winning a WDC (at the moment) but surely ITV should look at the other three drivers who are also very talented but they don't and it annoys me.

Surely David Coulthard should have got a mention by Martin Brundle and Steve Ryder yet he didn't and Hamilton was the main talking point (again) by them two. Come on ITV pull your finger out and start focusing on the other drivers more !!!

Hamilton is leading the Championship. There's no doubt that most of the attention will be on him. What's Coulthard going to do? Zilch.

^^ True, true. I screamed with joy when Kimi went out. How do you like that Ferrari fanboys? :D

I'm glad Alonso won. If not Hamilton then him.

The coverage of that race summed up ITV's F1 coverage :

CRAP !

Which BRITISH driver started in 20th and finished 5th ??

David Coulthard

Which BRITISH driver started in 10th but finished 9th ??

Lewis Hamilton

Which BRITISH driver had the more successful race ??

David Coulthard

Yet which british driver had more of the attention ??

Lewis Hamilton

I'm not having a dig at Hamilton here I'm having a dig at the ITV coverage which seems to care more about how Hamilton finishes/how well he drives than any other Brit driver, ok he is probably Britains best hope at winning a WDC (at the moment) but surely ITV should look at the other three drivers who are also very talented but they don't and it annoys me.

Surely David Coulthard should have got a mention by Martin Brundle and Steve Ryder yet he didn't and Hamilton was the main talking point (again) by them two. Come on ITV pull your finger out and start focusing on the other drivers more !!!

Of course your having a dig at hamilton, look at your bloody list.

Also, this is how the media works. They will give the most attention to the most popular person, Lewis Hamilton. Like Chookes said, Hamilton is leading the championship, Coulthard isn't, although coulthard had a stonking race, and even bigger probs to webber, because it appeared his gearbox gave out on the second to last corner.

But overall, it was, well, an interesting race. The 7 cars aquaplaning, was, well, funny, lol. I was amazed when they let Hamilton go back on to the track, as that was a really dangerous position to be in, to be honest I don't think I would have had the balls to sit there and wait for someone to crash into me.

Alonso, even though he's a big moody spaniard, stonking race. It seem's the Mclarens may have the edge in wet/damp conditions, which will be interesting if we have anymore wet GP's.

First rookie mistake from Hamilton though, a proper one that is. He changed to dry tires just to early, and ended up sliding off the track. It was clearly still to wet, and ended up being to his disadvantage rather than advantage when it dried up.

Shame about Kimi though, I mean, Ferrari's are known for good reliability, but did Kimi have a hydralic's problem earlier in the season, or massa ? Possibly something they need to address.

Props to winklehock though, serious moment of genius starting in the pits. Managed to build up a 30 second lead, lol. Legend.

James Allen's stupidest moment: "Kimi Raikkonen has certainly brought his 80 year old grandmother along this weekend (long pause) for luck"

^^ True, true. I screamed with joy when Kimi went out. How do you like that Ferrari fanboys? :D

I'm glad Alonso won. If not Hamilton then him.

That isn't very nice is it ???

What would all the Hamilton & McLaren fanboys said If I told them I laughed at Hamiltons crash yeserday ??? Have a go at me for hating Hamilton and for being inconsiderate to him as he could have been badly injured.

I've watched seven cars fly off the track so far at Germany, all because of poor tire choices.

Did anyone see hamiltons crash. Does anyone know if hes hurt or okay. who won the race. i didnt have time to watch it so yeah can anyone fill me in to what happened for the European GP:confused:

He's back on the track, with dry weather tires no less...

www.itv.com/f1

http://www.sportscarforums.com/f12/european-gp-21092.html

Everything you need to know.

www.itv.com/f1 (http://www.itv.com/f1)

http://www.sportscarforums.com/f12/european-gp-21092.html

Everything you need to know.Dang you, I'm still six laps to go and Masa was leading!

^^^ I think it was more the fact that the rain came on so hard, there was standing water everywhere, and the cars only way 600 kilos. No tyres would have had a chance in that.

^^ True, true. I screamed with joy when Kimi went out. How do you like that Ferrari fanboys? :D

I'm glad Alonso won. If not Hamilton then him.

That isn't very nice is it ???

What would all the Hamilton & McLaren fanboys said If I told them I laughed at Hamiltons crash yeserday ??? Have a go at me for hating Hamilton and for being inconsiderate to him as he could have been badly injured.

Quite frankly, what you both said was stupid. You don't laugh at Kimi Raikkonen, because if he hadn't of had a failure, he would have probably won. He was catching Alonso, and would have caught Massa to when the rain hit. It's a shame his car broke down.

You don't laugh at someone when they crash, because they could be seriously injured, even though you blatently wrote that. If you want to hate on Lewis Hamilton, go to a Ferrari F1 forum and do it, because we try to have some serious conversions about F1, not omg hamilton is crap, and errrrr, Kimi Raikkonen is driving a ferrari, Mclaren FTW !

Ys, we all have our favourite team, and we all have our favourite driver. That doesn't mean you should claim that over competitive drivers are worse, and just openly bash them. It's immature, and the more I see in the GP threads, the less it makes me want to post.

TOMAAAAAAAAAAA !!!

Alonso rules !!

^^^ I think it was more the fact that the rain came on so hard, there was standing water everywhere, and the cars only way 600 kilos. No tyres would have had a chance in that.





Quite frankly, what you both said was stupid. You don't laugh at Kimi Raikkonen, because if he hadn't of had a failure, he would have probably won. He was catching Alonso, and would have caught Massa to when the rain hit. It's a shame his car broke down.

You don't laugh at someone when they crash, because they could be seriously injured, even though you blatently wrote that. If you want to hate on Lewis Hamilton, go to a Ferrari F1 forum and do it, because we try to have some serious conversions about F1, not omg hamilton is crap, and errrrr, Kimi Raikkonen is driving a ferrari, Mclaren FTW !

Ys, we all have our favourite team, and we all have our favourite driver. That doesn't mean you should claim that over competitive drivers are worse, and just openly bash them. It's immature, and the more I see in the GP threads, the less it makes me want to post.

Can I just clear something up,

I didn't laugh at Hamilton when he crashed yesterday. Admittingly I was waiting for something like that too happen to him but I didn't laugh. I only used that has an example because laughing at an F1 drivers mistake is stupid because I certainly wouldn't be able to get in a F1 car and race like they do because It requires alot of skill, mental strengh etc etc.

TOMAAA!!

Alonso rules !

It was a great race and it had fun. lol.
A lot of drivers went straight to the turn one. A lot of rain, though.
Alonso was the winner. Did anyone see when the race finished and the drivers went to a room to be prepared for the awards? Alonso and MAssa had an arguement and Massa attacked to Alonso. He said bad words to him.
BMWs had bad luck. The 2 cars had a lot of incidents. Does anyone know if Heidfeld took a penalty for hitting the other car? I think that it was Toyota's F1.
Webber had a great race. He will never forget it. In the press conference he was a bit anxious because he hasn't been there before. Good thing.
Raikonen had problems. That's bad.
It was a great race in overall. The weather was a bit tricky though.


Also the highlight of the race was when Hamilton overpassed the Renault F1, IMO.

Yeah, that takeover by Alonso was epic.

Did anyone see the little argument Massa & Alonso had in the weight room ???

It was hilarious lol !

^^^ I think it was more the fact that the rain came on so hard, there was standing water everywhere, and the cars only way 600 kilos. No tyres would have had a chance in that.





Quite frankly, what you both said was stupid. You don't laugh at Kimi Raikkonen, because if he hadn't of had a failure, he would have probably won. He was catching Alonso, and would have caught Massa to when the rain hit. It's a shame his car broke down.

You don't laugh at someone when they crash, because they could be seriously injured, even though you blatently wrote that. If you want to hate on Lewis Hamilton, go to a Ferrari F1 forum and do it, because we try to have some serious conversions about F1, not omg hamilton is crap, and errrrr, Kimi Raikkonen is driving a ferrari, Mclaren FTW !

Ys, we all have our favourite team, and we all have our favourite driver. That doesn't mean you should claim that over competitive drivers are worse, and just openly bash them. It's immature, and the more I see in the GP threads, the less it makes me want to post.

Firstly, I never claim the competitor (Kimi) was worse. All I said was I was happy when he went out due to mechanical difficulties. Dude, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a McLaren fanboy - so obviously I'm gonna be happy that he went out. Yeah, I said 'How do you like that Ferrari Fanboys?' but it was a joke and I meant no harm. I don' really see what was so immature about me liking the fact he went out anyway...

That isn't very nice is it ???

What would all the Hamilton & McLaren fanboys said If I told them I laughed at Hamiltons crash yeserday ??? Have a go at me for hating Hamilton and for being inconsiderate to him as he could have been badly injured.

That would be out of order. I would never laugh at a crash - I laughed because of the mechanical difficulties. Dude, how can you call me 'not very nice' just because I was happy he went out due to mechanical difficulties...?

Did anyone see the little argument Massa & Alonso had in the weight room ???

It was hilarious lol !
I saw that. I wrote it to my other post in the other thread. BAd words from Massa to Alonso.

I am really annoyed with with the race comisaries letting hamilton continue after he was put back on the track with a truck. No one can help the car to go back to the track, thats how its been all time. Also when the safety car was out hamilton was let to go past it to recover the lost lap as he was 1 lap behind the cars infront. Maybe that huge Mercedes-Benz building in the track had something to do?:mad:

I think the dispute between Massa and Alonso was started by Alonso. First of all he called a camera to show the a scratch Massa had made him when he was overtaking him and afterwards he started telling Massa he didnt do right. Im happy Alonso won but I hate his personality.

Did anyone see Ralf Schumacher pushing the track tech?

By the way, I'm going to combine the two European GP threads.

How'd ya do that?^^

I missed the race but have seen the results. Can't say I am too happy about Hamilton finishing 9th, and a Ferrari loss, but at least Webber got a podium finish. Sounds like it was a good race.

Well that race was better than canada.
They 7 cars all piled into one corner had me in fits of laughter, sad as it was

Unfortunate for ferrari, both cars having probelms, unfortunatly Kimis being a bit more devastating, leaving him far behind in the championship again

But for me the spyker leading was the best moment, he lead for about 4 laps, if that safety car hadn't come out, and there was no probelms with the car, who knows where he could've came. Marcus driver of the day for me, simply because it was a legendary moment.

I was so sad to see button and sutil crash, the 2 drivers i wanted to see climb the grid in the wet, damn.

But for anyone who doubted Lewis's overtaking skills, just watch that race, he was sensational in overtaking. and if they still doubt him, may they be shot.

Then the BMW's, those 2 brick heads took each other out, its they're own fault for being back there. But no the less, they drove a great race after that.

As for red bull, best result of their season, showing they are for sure making progress. Hopefully next year we can see them being alot more competitive

I missed the race but have seen the results. Can't say I am too happy about Hamilton finishing 9th, and a Ferrari loss, but at least Webber got a podium finish. Sounds like it was a good race.

since you never saw, they race, Hamiliton actually spun the car, but managed to keep the engine on and have it brought back onto the track. But started a lap behind meaning it was a good while till he caught anyone

I saw some pictures of the race on ITV.com and I can just imagine what everyone was feeling like. A bunch of cars off the first corner, an STR into a track crane, and a Spyker (third favorite team) in first only to be cought out by the stupid safety car.

I do have a question though, I thought that once you go off and the corner workers move/touch your car, that your race is over. I saw that they crane lifted Hamilton's car so wouldn't that automatically retire him?

The only reason I ask is because a similar thing happened to one of the C6Rs at the 24.

That was an epic race! Ive never seen the conditions change that fast or that spectacularly!

I was gutted when cars started flying off at turn 1, especially button who is brilliant in the wet. Although it was really amusing that they were showing one person who had spun off and hit the barrier and another car flew past!

I think Hamilton was brilliant to keep the engine going, i never knew he could be brought back onto the track.

Great for Alonso, his pass on Massa was excellent.

Bad day for Kimi (again) he never has any luck there. Something bad always seems to happen, i thought it was over when he missed the pits and had to do another lap in the wet but he came back brilliantly only for a mechanical failure to keep him from a podium and probably a win.

Oh well, better luck next time Kimi!

Bad for Hamilton aswell but I think he did well to come back and nearly score a point. Considering if you think about it he was 17th and a lap down on everyone when they got underway again.

Winkelhock made me laugh! He went from 22nd to 1st in like 3 laps and then had a 30 something seccond lead! Thats amazing!

I dont think we'll have another race that dramatic for a while.

I was so angry that safety car came out ending Marcuses lead. Damn safety, hes winning.
Lets see, if the top runners were 3 seconds faster, and he was ahead by about 30 secs, he could of lead for another 10 laps, including the 4 before. Now that would've been epic. I love this quote from him though

To lead a Formula One race is something nobody can take away from you - you have it for your whole life. I am really happy about it - I was leading my home Grand Prix!

Did anyone see Ralf Schumacher pushing the track tech?

By the way, I'm going to combine the two European GP threads.

Yeah, that was good, apparently Schumacher wanted to stand at the side of the track, and wave his fist at Heidfeild. :p

But Martin Brundle's commentary was fairly spot on: "You love the marshalls, there there to help you, to save you, but nobody want's to be grabbed a hold of." He's right. I wouldn't want to be grabbed a hold of, it would really annoy me, especially when your caught in the heat of the moment.

I thought Mark back in an F1 car was a great feature, thank god it was held off till this week or i would've missed.
But it gave a good insite into what its like to drive an F1 car today, damn as hell fast

man, that was one of the best races ive seen.

I was staring at my tv in disbelief when all the cars were aquaplaning, was very smart by hamilton to keep his engine running.

It was brilliant to watch. Great form by mark webber, its great to finally see him on the podium again. Hamilton did well to catch up. Pity for kimi to not finish the race.
I thought alonso's overtaking move on massa was a bit silly because he could have taken them both out but thats racing i guess.

This was the best F1 race in a long long time.

I thought that the weather introduced just the right amount of chaos into what is usually a rather sterile race environment.

This was the best F1 race in a long long time.

I thought that the weather introduced just the right amount of chaos into what is usually a rather sterile race environment.

Hell yeah!

I loved that race! Sure, it was a chaotic start, but there was some strong racing there!!!

That one driver with the last name that starts with the letter "W" surely had the time of his life! Isn't he the only F1 driver to start last and reach 1st???

^^Thats Markus Winkelhock you're talking about. Yeah he did a great job by starting the race last and leading a few laps on his race debut, and he did all that in a Spyker!!!

Hell yeah!

I loved that race! Sure, it was a chaotic start, but there was some strong racing there!!!

That one driver with the last name that starts with the letter "W" surely had the time of his life! Isn't he the only F1 driver to start last and reach 1st???
i know there was deffinatly someone who raced from last and won, so its no record, but its the most overtakes i've ever seen, 21 people in 3 laps, thats got to be some record

HOLY ****
spyker is winning by miles. lol
but massa for 2nd, brilliant

and 7 people crashed into one corner, this is mental

In a few year's time, people will look back on Winkelhock's career and say one of his brightest ever moments was leading the European GP under horrendous conditions in a Spyker, ahead of a Ferrari and a double-world champion in a McLaren by 33 seconds.

I mean come on we have all witnessed something special, and I mean what a masterstroke by the Spyker team, for like one second I actually thought he might win it but then I realised he was in a Spyker. :(

Hamilton is out!!! Nooo!!!!

He's not out, he kept the clutch in, kept his car running, marshalls got him moved out and he was a lap down in 17th, but was able to overtake the safety car and join the back of the pack.

^^sorry hehe, alonso is ahead of massa, they touched tyres

Yeah, did you see on ITVs coverage of the race in parc ferme when Alonso was celebrating, he pointed to the camera and then pointed to the damage on his sidepods from Massa, then shook his finger!! :p

Alonso and Massa were having a mini-row going up to the podiums anyway, but then Alonso apologised and it was all OK.

Oh, and a kudos to the BMW teammates for knocking each other out on the first lap, I'm glad they finished but Heidfeld was driving a bit too aggressively.

Yeah I'm not too sure what happened there, I think Heidfeld saw an oppurtunity to pass around the outside of Turn 2 and accelerated, but Kubica thought otherwise and they tangled in eachother's sidepods. Kinda silly if you ask me, and Heidfeld was being a bit optimistic trying to take Schumacher around the last bend, which resulted in Schumacher being spun and beached onto the gravel, which I thought was kinda unfair, seeing as Toyota were on the pace and were looking at a few decent points.

The coverage of that race summed up ITV's F1 coverage :

CRAP !

Which BRITISH driver started in 20th and finished 5th ??

David Coulthard

Which BRITISH driver started in 10th but finished 9th ??

Lewis Hamilton

Which BRITISH driver had the more successful race ??

David Coulthard

Yet which british driver had more of the attention ??

Lewis Hamilton

I'm not having a dig at Hamilton here I'm having a dig at the ITV coverage which seems to care more about how Hamilton finishes/how well he drives than any other Brit driver, ok he is probably Britains best hope at winning a WDC (at the moment) but surely ITV should look at the other three drivers who are also very talented but they don't and it annoys me.

Surely David Coulthard should have got a mention by Martin Brundle and Steve Ryder yet he didn't and Hamilton was the main talking point (again) by them two. Come on ITV pull your finger out and start focusing on the other drivers more !!!

ITV hardly had any post-race interviews of analysis because of timings because everything was running late as it was, but there's highlights on everything, on Hamilton, DC, at 11.45pm tonight on ITV1, and they're being repeated at 6.00pm on ITV4 tomorrow.

As for all of the coverage, as Chookes rightfully said, Hamilton is a British guy in a British car leading the world championship. We haven't had this for over a decade, and let's face it Nige, the press aren't going to focus on midfield battles or who's been storming through from the back of the grid, they're going to be focussing on everything to do with Lewis Hamilton, whether he has a bad race (like today) or whether he dominates like in Indy and Montreal. I suspect it's going to be like this for quite some time, because Hamilton is still leading the standings and will be putting up an awesome fight.

Just imagine if Hamilton wins this year's title, there will be basically nothing on anyone else except Lewis.

But, to be fair to ITV, they had had articles about the ever-improving Honda squad a fair few times this year.

Shame about Kimi though, I mean, Ferrari's are known for good reliability, but did Kimi have a hydralic's problem earlier in the season, or massa ? Possibly something they need to address.

Props to winklehock though, serious moment of genius starting in the pits. Managed to build up a 30 second lead, lol. Legend.

James Allen's stupidest moment: "Kimi Raikkonen has certainly brought his 80 year old grandmother along this weekend (long pause) for luck"

Yeah, I mean, Ferrari were the standard bearer of relaibility a few years back, they had what, one engine failure between 2000 and 2005? That's a hell of a long time. But then they had Suzuka 2006 which I believe cost Schumacher an eighth world title.

But yeah, today I think was a hydraulics failure, and Kimi said that he was having problems when he was catching Alonso, and I think that's why Raikkonen dropped back a little bit just when he had Alonso on the ropes.

Ferrari's relaibility this year has been way off the mark for them, Massa had transmission problems in Australia, Kimi retired with electronic problems in Spain, Massa stalled on the grid in Britain, and now, Raikkonen retires with hydraulic problems.

And I don't think Granny will be invited to any more races in future. :p

Dang you, I'm still six laps to go and Masa was leading!

Oooh, sorry Phil. :o If i was around 10 minutes later to reply, it would have all been fine! :p

I am really annoyed with with the race comisaries letting hamilton continue after he was put back on the track with a truck. No one can help the car to go back to the track, thats how its been all time. Also when the safety car was out hamilton was let to go past it to recover the lost lap as he was 1 lap behind the cars infront. Maybe that huge Mercedes-Benz building in the track had something to do?

If it's in a dangerous place (which it was, at Turn 1), if the engine is still running, the car is allowed to be extracted from the gravel and the driver is allowed to start the race again. I see nothing illegal about that move, it's perfectly acceptable and good for Hamilton.

I do have a question though, I thought that once you go off and the corner workers move/touch your car, that your race is over. I saw that they crane lifted Hamilton's car so wouldn't that automatically retire him?

I think that the marshalls can move you out of a dangerous position, and if you keep the engine running, you can get back out onto the track and race again. Masterstroke by Hamilton though, but I'm not so sure about the C6R at Le Mans, maybe it's at the marshall's dicretion?

I also do have another question: the race time was 2hrs 6 mins, which is over the maximum time for 2hrs, so shouldn't the race have been stopped six minutes from the end, by which point Massa was still beating Alonso?

i know there was deffinatly someone who raced from last and won, so its no record, but its the most overtakes i've ever seen, 21 people in 3 laps, thats got to be some record

No prizes for guessing who; Kimi Raikkonen, from 20th to the win in Suzuka 2005, overtook Fisichella in the Renault of the first corner of the last bend.

_

My input:

The most crazy race I have ever watched, and probably one of the most crazy for years. Makes Canada seem pretty boring in comparison.

To be honest, I was hoping for a wet race because I knew that would play into the hands of Hamilton, and it would play into the hands of Button and we all know Button is ace in conditions like this, as he proved 50 weeks ago, but unfortunately it wasn't to be, as Turn 1 was literally a river, basically impossibly not to aquaplain unless you're travelling at around 1mph or less. I think I woke the whole bloody house up with ''Oh My God!'', ''Yes!!'' and ''Nooo!!'' during the whole race because it was so eventful!

And I was thinking that that was probably Alonso's best drive ever. It was his 18th grand prix win and probably the sweetest.

Up until about Lap 20 I thought Massa was just going to run away with it and walk it, and to be honest it was all getting a bit boring, but then the rain came and Massa had huge vibrations in his tyres on his last stint, with around 7 laps to go, which allowed Alonso to close right up to him, and it was basically a matter of time before Alonso took the win. It was a superior overtaking moment you have to say, going around the outside and then taking him up the inside; how incredible was that! Got a damaged sidepod out of it, but a full 10 points and he's now only 2 points away from Hamilton in the championship, so it was a great race for him and a great race to watch, I think Alonso fully deserved this one because he kept his head in, and proved to us all exactly why he is a double-world champion.

Mixed fortunes for Hamilton though, I think this is the very first time where he's actually made a mistake (well, two actually), one being when he put on dry tires when the track was blatantly too wet for dries, and when he left himself on the dries when the wet came out. If he hadn't had made these two mistakes and gone off the road, he could have been in with a chance of a podium finish, or at least a few points.

But, I think Hamilton will just see this as a blip in the program, in two weeks time it will be business as usual, provoding all wheel guns are on their best behaviour. I also think it will be unfair if Hamilton loses the championship because of this; a wheel gun failure, but we still have seven races to go and a hell of a lot can happen in that time, but as I said, this won't really affect Hamilton much.

And what an overtaking manouevre by Hamilton on Fisi - got him on the ropes on the inside on the straight into the chicane and used the McLaren's power to just blast straight pass him, two tyres touching the grass and no fear from Lewis - pretty unbelievable if you ask me, won't be too surprised if he keeps doing that regularly (if he's ever back where he was.)

Not a good race for Ferrari though, Massa getting robbed in the last few laps when he was looking certain for a victory, and then Raikkonen dropping out due to yet again, even more failures. Ferrari need to buck up their relaibility here because it's seriously costing them vital points in the championship, and this was a crucial race form them to win, I think. They need to address some issues because right now, McLaren have the upper hand on them in their overall package. Ferrari are quick, but have flaws which they need to sort out for the race in a fortnight's time.

Anyone think Massa was being dirty on Alonso? Not really, he just understeered into him, was just a racing incident I presume.

Well done to Red Bull, shows that their progress is really paying off right now. I am really starting to like the Red Bull team now, they're a likeable bunch of lads with laods of racing experience and let me tell you I was only one of millions of happy people to see Webber up there, smiling on the podium. A 5th for DC when he started 20th can only be counted as a brilliant result for him, and a brilliant result for RBR, and I hope only good things happen to them now.

Not so well done to BMW Sauber, taking eachother out when they were looking good for podiums, Nick being a bit too aggressive today, but oh well. They are still a very quick team and will be right back on the pace.

Renault, 10th and 8th, not good for them, their pace hasn't been anywhere this weekend, they need to get it sorted out before Hungary. Don't really know what happened with them today, probably a tyre issue or something, and the fact that they made a gamble by gambling Kovy's 5th place for a podium; didn't work out and he ends up 8th.

Toyota, not in the points with Trulli finishing 13th (I think), and Schumacher getting beached at the last Turn by being spun out by Heidfeld. Understandably outraged by this, was Schumacher, as he was on for points.

Honda, an oppurtunity missed, you have to say. Button could have gotten some major points which would have helped them financially next year, but it wasn't happening as his accident was through no fault of his own. Barrichello, drove his heart out as always but the car not fast enough for Barrichello to get some decent points today, hopefully we can see them both shine in Hungary.

Williams, well done to Wurz for getting a well deserved 4th place and only 0.2 seconds from 3rd when Webber nearly binned it at the final chicance, but good race from him, and unlucky for Rosberg, succumbed to Turn 1 on the early laps.

STR, both cars out at the start, really unlucky for them.

Super Aguri, Sato retiring due to problems, and Davvo finishing down in 16th (I think.) Still, it's a finish for them, and think about the progress they've made since last year!!

Spyker, unlucky for Sutil who crashed out at Turn 1, and well done to WInkelhock, great race, leading by half a minute for ages, if it stayed wet we could have had a Spyker leading the race, possibly winning it, you never know. :p But, well done to Winkelhock for leading his debut race in a Spyker at his home ground, well done!!

_

And also, anyone remember my dream about Button being 3rd behind a Ferrari and a McLaren with loads of fuel on board? Well, today he was 4th behind a Ferrari and a McLaren, with more fuel on board than both of them

I am a genius.

But unfortunately it wasn't to be. :p

Next race, Hungary in a fortnight's time, bring it on, should be great. :)


European GP race report:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40132

I was sad to see sutil go out, he is probaly one of best drivers in it, and all the othere drivers have even said it themselves, his skill is easily on par with hamiliton, i think we need a entire wet weekend to prove what he can actually do. Its so unfortunate that he got stuck in a slower car, but if you remeber back to monaco, he topped the times for a wet practice round.

^Hell yeah, what about a Sutil vs Hamilton round with both of them in the McLarens. I agree with you though, people have said Sutil is an amazingly skilled driver and it's only a matter of time before he goes to a team where they can give him the potential to score points and win races. Unfrotauntely Spyker cannot do that, but like you said, a fully wet weekend would be great, seeing who's the men and who's the boys, will be great to see how Button and Sutil do.

Sutil is part of the drivers that will make Hamiltons life hell along with Kubica, Kovaleinen & Rosberg in the future :D !

Of course Kubica is the best out of all of them though ;).

^That's if he gets a drive. I'm not sure where he can go, Sutil might stay at Spyker for a year or two.

But this is what happened to Fernando Alonso, tested for Minardi in 2001, drove for them in 2002, won his first race with Renault in 2003, 2004 was there or thereabouts, 2005 and 2006 he won the titles and 2007 he's in with a shout at his third successive one.

Could happen to Sutil.

Excellent write up Bennyboy, and don't worry about the spoilers, it was kind of cool knowing it was about to happen!

I'm still a bit new to F1, can anyone explain to me why the announcers made several references to Honda's chassis being rubbish?

I don't really have a favorite team but seeing Hamilton come back like he did was pretty awesome.

Excellent write up Bennyboy, and don't worry about the spoilers, it was kind of cool knowing it was about to happen!

I'm still a bit new to F1, can anyone explain to me why the announcers made several references to Honda's chassis being rubbish?

I don't really have a favorite team but seeing Hamilton come back like he did was pretty awesome.

The new chassis that Honda made between the 2006 and 2007 seasons didn't work the way their engineers wanted it to and is slower than the 2006 chassis in some races. Much slower than their old competitions new car.
I hope Honda get their act back together for the 2008 season. It wouldn't surprise me if the gap between the dominant teams and the lower end teams closed up.

This is probably my second favorite race of the season to Monza. Which I will be seeing in person.

Excellent write up Bennyboy, and don't worry about the spoilers, it was kind of cool knowing it was about to happen!

I'm still a bit new to F1, can anyone explain to me why the announcers made several references to Honda's chassis being rubbish?

I don't really have a favorite team but seeing Hamilton come back like he did was pretty awesome.

Honda had far more success in previous years. They weren't a midpack chassis finishing worse than 10th all the time. They used to be a top 8 finisher.

Both drivers, Jensen Button (who finally won a race for Honda last year) and Barichello both had severe issues with the car this season. Revised aero, front end work, etc. Hasn't gained Honda any speed.

Excellent write up Bennyboy, and don't worry about the spoilers, it was kind of cool knowing it was about to happen!

I'm still a bit new to F1, can anyone explain to me why the announcers made several references to Honda's chassis being rubbish?

I don't really have a favorite team but seeing Hamilton come back like he did was pretty awesome.

Thanks Phil. :)

And there's a lot of disgruntled people moaning about Honda's chassis because Honda said they were ready to mount a championship challenge this season. Their first qualifying session; their highest driver was 17th on the grid and they have scored 1 championship point in ten races. Their chassis wasn't working as people wanted it to, as it was said, and one of their main problems was that their aero package made the car increasingly difficult to drive in high speed corners, because the rear was sliding out all the time and they had issues keeping the car stable under heavy braking for turns, which slowed them down. They've had aero tweaks, new front suspensions and wings over the course of this year but it just isn't really working them right now. They also introduced their RA107 (this year's car) quite late in the winter testing development stages, so they didn't have quite enough time to fine-tune their car. By comparison, the cars that have won all the races this year, the Ferraris and the McLarens, were the first cars to be introduced to winter testing last year.

In 2004 Honda finished second in the constructors championship behind Ferrari, and Ferrari pretty much had the fastest F1 car in history back then (majoraty of track record on the F1 calendar are held by Ferraris from 2004). Button was the best of the rest basically, he scored 10 podiums and really wanted to win the championship next year. Unfortunately in 2005, Honda went backwards, as they did from 2006 into 2007, albeit on a smaller scale. They were only finishing top 8, top 6 and scored no wins throughout the season and nowhere near as many podiums as they did in 2005.

So, in 2005 winter testing, Honda put their heads down and went balls-out for race wins. It worked. Throughout winter testing they had the fastest car, but when it came to race day they were nowhere. Button finished 4th in the season opener, and got a 2nd in the second race of the season, but did not have the outright pace to overcome the Renautlt R26, the fastest car at that time. Throughout the season things got progressively worse, failing to develop their car as fast as their competitors were. Relaibility issues, traction issues, aero and speed issues, until Hungary 2006 where Jenson scored his maiden victory (I won't go into that right now!) Between then and the end of the season Button scored more points than any other driver, and he scored a podium at the season finale in Brazil. He then revealed that him and the team were ready to mount a championship challenge to the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and Renault the next season.

But, midway through 2005 Honda had a scab with their Technical Director, Geoff Willis, who is one of the most intelligent guys in the F1 paddock and is renowned to be one of the most useful people in the Honda garage. Without him, it basically went to pieces, they had no guidance from anybody; no senior figures had any experience of winning championships, so they were nternally unstable, and that came out onto the track, with their 2007 challenger being a dog to drive and constantly off the pace.

They've got some new aero people in this year, some highly-respected people from the paddock to come and help them out, and if Ross Brawn come to Honda, there could be some exciting times for Honda in 2008-2009.

So, there we go, three years in a few paragraphs. :)

It's just that people expected so much from Honda and got so little, which is disappointing because they're my favourite F1 team.

I'm new to F1 this year to, but i've been researching through the history books ever since. So i did find it dissapointing to see have honda droped down since Button is an amazing driver, and it shows all through last season.

Right now i'm supporting Ferrari, mainly because i like massa, and Red bull are a team that are apealing to me now to.

If it's in a dangerous place (which it was, at Turn 1), if the engine is still running, the car is allowed to be extracted from the gravel and the driver is allowed to start the race again. I see nothing illegal about that move, it's perfectly acceptable and good for Hamilton.

Its deinitely good for Hamilton, jajaja:D.
Its not fair at all that if you get stuck on a dangerous place you are let back into the race with external help while if you get stuck on a safe place your race will end there. Its the first time Ive seen that on F1, do you know of any other?
I cant believe nobody is saying anything about this. If instead of Hamilton, Alonso or any of the Ferraris had done it there would be a huge discussion. Even worse than that was letting him recover a lap with the safety car on the track. Why the hell do they think its there. Hamilton rushed that lap, even going of the track, which should be done at low speed as its dangerous (therefore the safety car there).

Its deinitely good for Hamilton, jajaja:D.
Its not fair at all that if you get stuck on a dangerous place you are let back into the race with external help while if you get stuck on a safe place your race will end there. Its the first time Ive seen that on F1, do you know of any other?
I cant believe nobody is saying anything about this. If instead of Hamilton, Alonso or any of the Ferraris had done it there would be a huge discussion. Even worse than that was letting him recover a lap with the safety car on the track. Why the hell do they think its there. Hamilton rushed that lap, even going of the track, which should be done at low speed as its dangerous (therefore the safety car there).

Of course it makes sense to get you out of a dangerous place? If Hamilton is still in the car and he's left there, what happened when another car comes piling into him, who's to blame then? As I said, it's perfectly legal, it's in the rules. I think a few years ago, at the same track, Michael Schumacher collided with JPM and the very same thing happened.

I think if anyone did what Hamilton did, they'd give him a pat on the back. I see no problem with it.

And also, it's 2007 rules that if a car is a lap down he's allowed to overtake the safety car and join the back of the field.

Of course it makes sense to get you out of a dangerous place? If Hamilton is still in the car and he's left there, what happened when another car comes piling into him, who's to blame then? As I said, it's perfectly legal, it's in the rules. I think a few years ago, at the same track, Michael Schumacher collided with JPM and the very same thing happened.

I think if anyone did what Hamilton did, they'd give him a pat on the back. I see no problem with it.

And also, it's 2007 rules that if a car is a lap down he's allowed to overtake the safety car and join the back of the field.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The fact of the matter is at that current time and in that situation, all those cars were in a dangerous position. This was highlighted by how incredibly close Sutil's car got from hitting Lewis' (I think). As he was the only driver to keep the engine running, he was allowed to resume given he was removed from his dangerous position. It would have been quicker to get the car out of the area by doing this than by towing it all the way to behind the barrier.

Also, as bennyboy said, the marshals did something similar with Schuamcher a couple of years back, after colliding with JPM at the Dunlop curve. He was beached in the massive gravel trap, but was pushed off by the marshals.

^Timbit, do you know what position Michael finished in when he got out of the gravel trap, and did JPM get out of it aswell?

And you're absolutely right. I found it very lucky that when Sutil's car slid onto the tarmac, it turned away from Lewis' car.

JUst to highlight how dangerous that was, when Sutil got onto the tarmac in the run off area, his car actually acclerated because it was so wet until he hit the gravel.

Anyone see Button bailing out of his car and over the tyres? Don't blame him.

When the rain come down I was like this race is surely gonna be stopped because its too dangerous and when Liuzzi nearly hit the safety car I knew then that the race would stop.

I really wanted Kimi too at least get on the poduim but 'the Nurburgring curse' got him once again :(

But I really do feel that this year is Kimi's year for the WDC, seven more races to go first or second each race and has long as Alonso, Massa & Hamilton don't perform better there we go hes won it lol :D !

^As soon as I saw Button in the gravel (after going absolutely nuts), I knew the race was going to be red-flagged. Then came Hamilton, Sutil, Rosberg, Speed, Liuzzi all flying into the same bit of gravel. Excessively dangerous.

And yeah I still think Kimi has a shot at this year's title, although it is very remote. Seven races to go and if Hamilton and Alonso keep up their form, it will be between them. If Ferrari get 1-2s or 1-3s and McLaren get 2-4s or 3-4s then Ferrari will not be able to win the title.

Ferrari have admitted that they have the pace to win the remaining seven races, and it will be interesting to see how they react in Hungary.

I still think McLaren have the advance in the tables, but not on the track. It only takes one reitrement or one non-points finish for any driver to make it wide open again. Hamilton had a huge 12 point gap over Alonso and in two hours and six minutes it was down to 2 points, anything can happen and it's fairly wide open.

^^

True but I genuinely think Kimi a) has the car, b) has the right mentality this year to do it !

Jean Todt has already said he thinks Ferrari has the potential to win the rest of the races and has long as Ferrari get 1-2's (Kimi - Massa) and have no reliability problems and McLaren have some reliability problems Kimi could do it (I know its a long shot but it could happen).

Lots of great commentary here; including some that is very thoughtful by the thread starter.

If you're so smart, bennyboy; lay off the stupid bandwidth/screen/time wasting poll! It is a waste.