I have to say this, Mclaren got what was coming to them. Justice has been served. The best thing was that Mclaren drivers got away without any penalty which would have sucked for Lewis Hamilton (even though im a Ferrari fan)

general discussions about the hearing welcome.

I don't really know what happened. Mind to explain, anyone?
McLaren went to find infos about what Ferrari is trying to do is it?

Still not sure...wait a few weeks until the crap has been cleared and then everyone can make a detailed judgement.

From what has been revealed so far I agree with most of the judgement. I think 100 million is a bit much though...

McLaren had 800 pages of Ferrari's testing, documentation, blueprints, strategies, technical figures, plans etc.. The drivers also had access to this information, so they could have made good use of this. McLaren used this information to their advantage in the car so ultimately, McLaren used the best of Ferrari and the best of McLaren in their car. No wonder in certain races, the Ferrari could not keep up with the McLaren. Which explains how McLaren came back to be competitive after all those years of achieving nothing, apart from blowing up engines... After All, Hamilton and Alonso were driving partial Ferrari's and knew about it. They too should have been penalised. So they should consider themselves to be extremely lucky..

The bit I don't agree with is, the FiA have came out with an offical statement this morning. I haven't read the entire thing, but read some of the extracts that the itv-f1 website has posted.

Now, the whole thing is over the breach of article 151c, which must say something along the lines of not using information from other teams, or not being in posession of.

Now, the new evidence is apparently more emails between alonso, de la rosa, and coughlin. The FiA have came out and said, that Mclaren have some how gained a race advantage from the data, but there is no way to prove this in concrete terms.

So, basically, Mclaren have been fined, and lost the constructors championship, for possibly gaining an advantage.

That, to me, is no where near enough justification for the fine and punishment merited by the FiA and WMSC.

I read every word the FIA had packed in that document they made public in relation to the meeting.

To summarise quite greatly, the team were penalised as the information known to Mark Coughlan had the potential to, and may just have, change the way the team developed their car.

For instance, if Coughlan knew about a certain something Ferrari were doing that gave them an advantage, he would have had the ability to steer the development of the MP4-22 in such a way as to reduce, or match, that advantage. So, in that respect, it wasn't so much a matter of copying Ferrari parts, but it was primarily a matter of what the effects were of knowing Ferrari information. That way, McLaren may just have gained an advantage from having Ferrari information, it's just that it would be very hard to find physical evidence to prove it.

It was seen by the FIA and the WMSC (World Motor Sport Council) that it was unlikely that both de la Rosa and Coughlan would be able to initiate ideas from Ferrari without other McLaren personal knowing of the source of the ideas. Therefore, it was not just Coughlan who was punished, but the team as a whole.

McLaren had 800 pages of Ferrari's testing, documentation, blueprints, strategies, technical figures, plans etc.. The drivers also had access to this information, so they could have made good use of this. McLaren used this information to their advantage in the car so ultimately, McLaren used the best of Ferrari and the best of McLaren in their car. No wonder in certain races, the Ferrari could not keep up with the McLaren. Which explains how McLaren came back to be competitive after all those years of achieving nothing, apart from blowing up engines... After All, Hamilton and Alonso were driving partial Ferrari's and knew about it. They too should have been penalised. So they should consider themselves to be extremely lucky..

That's a bit blatant and ignorant don't you think?

The FIA have just completed a thorough investigation and have concluded that no Ferrari parts had been used on the McLaren, and have therefore not punished them on this fact. But you seem to know better...

McLaren had 800 pages of Ferrari's testing, documentation, blueprints, strategies, technical figures, plans etc.. The drivers also had access to this information, so they could have made good use of this. McLaren used this information to their advantage in the car so ultimately, McLaren used the best of Ferrari and the best of McLaren in their car. No wonder in certain races, the Ferrari could not keep up with the McLaren. Which explains how McLaren came back to be competitive after all those years of achieving nothing, apart from blowing up engines... After All, Hamilton and Alonso were driving partial Ferrari's and knew about it. They too should have been penalised. So they should consider themselves to be extremely lucky..

I think you should actually read the sources before you come out with stuff like that. Going from nowhere to winning? That's called 'development'. Drivers winning? That's called 'being on form'. As Timbit said, pretty ignorant if you ask me...

I read every word the FIA had packed in that document they made public in relation to the meeting.

To summarise quite greatly, the team were penalised as the information known to Mark Coughlan had the potential to, and may just have, change the way the team developed their car.

For instance, if Coughlan knew about a certain something Ferrari were doing that gave them an advantage, he would have had the ability to steer the development of the MP4-22 in such a way as to reduce, or match, that advantage. So, in that respect, it wasn't so much a matter of copying Ferrari parts, but it was primarily a matter of what the effects were of knowing Ferrari information. That way, McLaren may just have gained an advantage from having Ferrari information, it's just that it would be very hard to find physical evidence to prove it.

It was seen by the FIA and the WMSC (World Motor Sport Council) that it was unlikely that both de la Rosa and Coughlan would be able to initiate ideas from Ferrari without other McLaren personal knowing of the source of the ideas. Therefore, it was not just Coughlan who was punished, but the team as a whole.

Thanks for posting that up. There were quite a few grey areas but now everthing seems clear.

I think the decision was absolutely right. Ferrari really had to push to get the decision they deserved. I would have been absolutley furious about McLaren being 'let off the hook' the first time. It is a matter of theft for profit and greed and they deserved to 'have the book thrown at them'.

I think the decision to allow the drivers off the hook was a good one, as they were not directly involved, from what I know, and it would ruin the competition. I hope McLaren can learn a lesson from the scandal.

I think the whole spy scandel maybe true but also i have a theory that ferrari plotted this extremely carefully.

$100million (£49.2million) is completey ridiculas and i think it is biased toward ferrari as ferrai are lets all face the facts & the truth "the darlings of motorsport".

They could run a illegal car for the whole season and not even go to a WMC (World Motorsport Council) hearing, but if mclaren or bmw or toyota or any other formula 1 team did run a illegal car all season would get serverly punished.

I still think that ferrari should be punished for allowing a technical dossier out of their possesion.

I think mclaren are 50% guilty & so are ferrari.

This scandel should have ended a long time ago.

I think the whole spy scandel maybe true but also i have a theory that ferrari plotted this extremely carefully.

$100million (£49.2million) is completey ridiculas and i think it is biased toward ferrari as ferrai are lets all face the facts & the truth "the darlings of motorsport".

They could run a illegal car for the whole season and not even go to a WMC (World Motorsport Council) hearing, but if mclaren or bmw or toyota or any other formula 1 team did run a illegal car all season would get serverly punished.

I still think that ferrari should be punished for allowing a technical dossier out of their possesion.

I think mclaren are 50% guilty & so are ferrari.

This scandel should have ended a long time ago.

Dude, all of that, WTF?

Anyway, I wonder why there is another thread about the topic but I will contirubte something I saw while looking through some automotive sites. It was already mentioned by Timbit, but he and I don't think anyone has posted some of the convos.


Emails between Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa were central to the evidence that led to the disqualification and $100m fine imposed on McLaren. The FIA revealed a 15-page dossier of the evidence to the media at Spa-Francorchamps on Friday, which showed that the confidential Ferrari information sent by Nigel Stepney to Mike Coughlan had indeed been used by the Woking based team.
“All the information from Ferrari is very reliable,” test driver de la Rosa wrote in one email to world champion Alonso. “It comes from Nigel Stepney. He’s the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping on lap 18.”
In another email, this time to chief designer Mike Coughlan, de la Rosa write: “Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car’s weight distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro.”
Coughlan replied to the email with a text message, and de la Rosa forwarded the information to Alonso, who emailed: “(The weight distribution) surprises me; I don’t know if it’s 100 per cent reliable, but at least it draws attention.”

The evidence also reveals that the drivers discussed Ferrari’s flexible wings, aero balance, tyre gas, braking system and strategies. The FIA said Coughlan and Stepney sent 288 text messages to each other and talked on the telephone at least 35 times.

Wow that's interesting...you know I never heard about this before, 'cause I cant get to watch F1, but damn.

It's getting pretty heated.

On top of what has been mentioned here there were 288 SMS communications between Stepheny and Coughlan. Then in e-mails between de la Rosa and Coughlan information about a long list of details were exchanged along with plans to put it into the simulator. Something that grabbed my attention a bit was the use of a "special" gas to fill up the tires. Apparently the gas reduces internal temperatures of the tires either preventing or eliminating blistering of the tires. I was very impressed by this b/c I would have never thought about doing that.

The 14 page document goes on to say that McLaren can not attend podium ceremonies if a driver(s) make it in the top three. All constructor points have been removed from the team and no points will be awarded to them through the rest of the season. On the driver's side both drivers retain all individual points to date and have the opportunity to gain more. The fine of 100 million dollars has to be paid in 90 days of the issue of this document from the FIA. Now a 100 million dollars sounds like a lot but McLaren have around 500 million for this season alone. With that said its a staggering 20% cut into the season budget, extremely excessive IMO but what can you do.

So I think that the ferrari documentation which McLaren had was simply used as a bed time story for the guys of McLaren to sleep on..

So I think that the ferrari documentation which McLaren had was simply used as a bed time story for the guys of McLaren to sleep on..

Have you read the 13 page document full of evidence, reasonings, and decisions made by the WMSC in relation to this event?