In the late 70's, a rocket car set the fastest quarter mile ever. 3.22 seconds at 412mph. These cars could accelerate way, way faster than any rail dragster made for the drag strip. Even today our top fuel dragsters still fall way short of the rocket cars. How come they don't race them anymore? The only thing I can think of is that the G forces would be too dangerous for the drivers. To complete the 1/4 mile in less than 4 seconds, you would have to accelerate with tremendous force. Almost unreal.

I think they were more of a fad, and were mostly used for exhibition. I went to watch them quite a few times, but there really weren't enough of them to make a good elimination.. Plus they were not the safest vehicles out there

I think the wildest one I ever saw was a conventional cab truck....I think it was either a pete or a KW, but really cannot remember. It was painted yellow, with red and orange graphics. It had flames coming out of the stacks, and THREE jets (maybe J-48s...but still having memory failure) sticking out the back of the sleeper

Well partly also because thrust is not a immediate power propulsion. It needs to build up initially before it actually reaches the high speeds. For example the Aircraft carriers need to propel their jets using a hydraulic launcher to aid the full after burner thrust of the jet plane, or it would not make it into the air in such a short distance.

^^That's true about the acceleration, but you still have to accelerate very very hard to achieve a 3.22 second 1/4 mile. Even if it's not a very hard launch, it's going to go like hell half way through.

I think they were more of a fad, and were mostly used for exhibition. I went to watch them quite a few times, but there really weren't enough of them to make a good elimination.. Plus they were not the safest vehicles out there



I think the wildest one I ever saw was a conventional cab truck....I think it was either a pete or a KW, but really cannot remember. It was painted yellow, with red and orange graphics. It had flames coming out of the stacks, and THREE jets (maybe J-48s...but still having memory failure) sticking out the back of the sleeper

Top fuel isn't exactly safe either. You can get your eyeballs detached from braking too fast. That's scary.

Rockets with solid fuel provide almost immediate acceleration, but can't stop until all the fuel is burned, so they are very very dangerous. The liquid fuel rockets are extremely expensive to run because of the fuel need to be very very cold :) The jet engine can not deliver power immediate because when its still there isn't enough airflow around him to compress :)

Is there any video about this 'under 4 sec.' cars?

are you familiar with what happened to Richard Hammond the Top Gear presenter??

Is there any video about this 'under 4 sec.' cars?
I wish.
are you familiar with what happened to Richard Hammond the Top Gear presenter??
No.
Rockets with solid fuel provide almost immediate acceleration, but can't stop until all the fuel is burned, so they are very very dangerous. The liquid fuel rockets are extremely expensive to run because of the fuel need to be very very cold :) The jet engine can not deliver power immediate because when its still there isn't enough airflow around him to compress :)
I never really got the point of jet dragsters. They're fast, and look cool, but they arn't as fast as regular funny cars. So they're pointless unless there's a class they can compete in effectively.

G Force isn't really a factor. The drivers can wear G Suits, but the real problem is the safety reasons.

Venom 1000; jet dragsters don't really compete. They make lots of noise, smoke, and flame; but they are speed limited to 300 mph at a 1/4 mile strip.

The listed FIA record for SS 1/4 mile, rocket power is 181 mph, set at Bonneville 8/19/74. Not saying 412 didn't happen; maybe they couldn't make a return run due to a quick flight over the Newfoundland Mountains for a view of the Great Salt Lake!

I wish.

No.

I never really got the point of jet dragsters. They're fast, and look cool, but they arn't as fast as regular funny cars. So they're pointless unless there's a class they can compete in effectively.

Welcome to Earth son,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6273973.stm

First things first... I'd like to know where you got this info about a 3 second jet car. My Uncle Joe had a jet car in the 70's and 80's and they were lucky to break into the high 5's. He was a US record holder in the mid 70's with a mid 5 second pass (not sure of the exact et...). They were running 3 second 1/8 mile times but sure as hell not at over 400 mph. Not only that but drag strips, especially in the 70's, didn't have a long enough braking area to stop a 400+ mph jet car.

Welcome to Earth son,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6273973.stm Welcome to earth son? It's people like you who make it hard for me to be nice. Just because some of us don't know what happened to your precious top gear presenter means you have to talk down to us like that? Your parents must be so proud that you have such knowledge beyond our comprehension.

First things first... I'd like to know where you got this info about a 3 second jet car. My Uncle Joe had a jet car in the 70's and 80's and they were lucky to break into the high 5's. He was a US record holder in the mid 70's with a mid 5 second pass (not sure of the exact et...). They were running 3 second 1/8 mile times but sure as hell not at over 400 mph. Not only that but drag strips, especially in the 70's, didn't have a long enough braking area to stop a 400+ mph jet car.

Welcome to earth son? It's people like you who make it hard for me to be nice. Just because some of us don't know what happened to your precious top gear presenter means you have to talk down to us like that? Your parents must be so proud that you have such knowledge beyond our comprehension.
There's a massive difference between a JET and a ROCKET. I was talking about rockets. Here's where I found the specs: http://www.the-rocketman.com/space-age-racing.html

Let me get this straight. You quoted:

In the late 70's, a rocket car set the fastest quarter mile ever. 3.22 seconds at 412mph.

from http://www.the-rocketman.com/space-age-racing.html (snicker) as "specs" on a Motorsports thread on this Forum???

BWAAA-HAA-HAA-HAAAAA!!!!!

I had read it elsewhere too, I just showed you that link so you wouldn't think I made it up.

The long and short of it; because they were strapping a rocket to a 1,000lb piece of plastic.

Well, they jam 500 cui V8s into rails. Ain't that scary? lol

Monkey is the reason why rocket dragsters are no longer used. Once the competitors heard of the Monte, they were scared and ran away with their tails between their legs.

Now if anyone even mentions the words rocket dragster, the Monte comes to haunt them in their nightmares.

First things first... I'd like to know where you got this info about a 3 second jet car. My Uncle Joe had a jet car in the 70's and 80's and they were lucky to break into the high 5's. He was a US record holder in the mid 70's with a mid 5 second pass (not sure of the exact et...). They were running 3 second 1/8 mile times but sure as hell not at over 400 mph. Not only that but drag strips, especially in the 70's, didn't have a long enough braking area to stop a 400+ mph jet car.

Welcome to earth son? It's people like you who make it hard for me to be nice. Just because some of us don't know what happened to your precious top gear presenter means you have to talk down to us like that? Your parents must be so proud that you have such knowledge beyond our comprehension.

Sorry for being so late, but I could not hold my self from replying!!

Clearly you Americans lack the sense of "Sarcasm",

Now if you gonna go like: DONT LOOK AT THE TROLL!! or if you gonna simply ask me to stop doing what I call community service (educating people) please feel free to do that, I have better things to do in life rather than starting a flaming war with you .

"You americans"? I think you should show more respect.

ya ....^
rockets= can fly in space and air because they supply their own oxygen which means instant acceleration
jets= they rely on an intake for combustion so they can only fly in the sky. the need to get the air going before they can speed up.

Jets are going pretty damn fast when they cross the line, but the actuall pass time is slower than a funny car because it needs time to get going at the start.

First things first... I'd like to know where you got this info about a 3 second jet car. My Uncle Joe had a jet car in the 70's and 80's and they were lucky to break into the high 5's. He was a US record holder in the mid 70's with a mid 5 second pass (not sure of the exact et...). They were running 3 second 1/8 mile times but sure as hell not at over 400 mph. Not only that but drag strips, especially in the 70's, didn't have a long enough braking area to stop a 400+ mph jet car.

Um...Monkey...

1977 was the year... Kitty O'Neil was the driver...Ky Michaelson was the mastermind...Space Age Racing was the team... a record in the quarter-mile was the goal. Not only did the team reach their goal, they smashed it! Kitty ran the quarter-mile in 3.22 seconds at a speed of 412 mph.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2236/kittycarcx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ky has a history of setting or breaking speed records that spans over 20 years. Many of those records still stand to this day.
For approximately 10 years, Ky traveled across the U.S. going after landspeed records using rocket powered vehicles. He set 72 state, national and international records with Hydrogen Peroxide powered vehicles.
His cars were the first to run sub fie and sub-four second runs on an NHRA track.They were also the first to run 300 and 340+ mph on an NHRA track.

Ky had the first Funny Car to run in the three second range at over 300 mph.

These cars set records in the eigth-mile, 500 meter and the Kilometer as well. As mentioned previously, many of these records still stand to this date.

Ky has complety restored the worlds fastest rocket powered dragster that set many records in the seventies, that still stand to this day. The car is available for car shows, commercials, or promotional events. The fee for a three day event is $10,000 plus expenses for further information contact Ky at 952-884-5870.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8821/gstarearcarvb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3200/gstafrontviewfd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4153/rearofcar31206he2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5379/gstarearshotqj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Damn I'm good. Sometimes.

Source:http://www.the-rocketman.com/space-age-racing.html

wesleypipes: However "good" (and I hope really well!) you might be; no such numbers exist in the FIA records. You can hurt your younger/better eyes than mine reading them.

The Veyron was never "officially" the world's fastest car but everyone knew it could do well over 400km/h.

@ SteveFX - You know I'm good!!! Just look at me.

Go on...

And prolly the main reason it's not in the FIA is cause it took place in the Mojave Desert , not on a sanctioned track.

Steve , just curious...how old are you? (referring to the 'younger' bit)

wesleypipes: However "good" (and I hope really well!) you might be; no such numbers exist in the FIA records. You can hurt your younger/better eyes than mine reading them.

FIA records being absent doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Hal Needham had the same thing happen to him...here...read.

FIA rules state that any land speed attempt must be made under its or an appointed agent’s jurisdiction. Furthermore, the attempt must be “two-wayed” within an hour over the same piece of real estate.

None of these conditions were met. So the purists, including Craig Breedlove, feel the Fredrick/Needham/Barrett mark is, at best, unofficial.

Needham doesn’t let these “details” bother him. “We were interested in breaking the sound barrier, not setting an FIA record,” Needham says. “We did it, and we can prove we did it no matter what Breedlove or those other guys say. [The Motivator] is in the Smithsonian now, and [that museum] doesn’t display bogus cars.”

Not everyone wants to be in the FIA records. They just want to go fast.

Source:http://www.bluebird-electric.net/the_sound_barrier.htm

I can accept that Stan Barrett exceeded Mach 1 on 12/17/79 for 3 reasons:

The shock wave raised dust ahead of the front wheels.

The rear wheels were off the the ground for over 300 yds.

Edwards AFB had radar way better (especially against a fixed background) than publicly declassified. They said he did Mach 1.

-----

I cannot find a second source to back up the Kitty O'Neill 1/4 mile claim.

^^^ I'll find one. Give me a bit.

And yes , concerning me , I am doing very well Steve. Thanks for asking.

EDIT: Proof that 3 sec 1/4's exist...
Here's Sammy Miller attempting to break Kitty's record on an actual strip with a .07 sec difference. Soooo it must exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mIfb4vIZOQ

Here's Sammy Miller going 4.20 down the 1/4 at Santa Pod Raceway in 79'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMWK-alzHL0

There's even a movie about Kitty O'Neil called Silent Victory.

She was also deaf. Trust me dude , her record is real.

It was a good job Kitty had no gears to change eh?!

I think I can afford to be a little bit sexist, because I'm not jealous or anything...

Anyway, I remmember a TV show about rocket propelled cars a while back, and I thought it was the G's that were the dangerous bit. The show implied that the drivers would suffer massive trauma from the G's acting on them, most dangerously when forces were acting on their organs. Drivers would finish the quarter and get out with nose bleeds, and blood dripping from other orrifices (ears, eyes etc.) and this was not considered 'safe'. Well done Sherlock.

Chris.

If that's true, then I suppose we have reached the limit. Kind of like F1. The limit was reached, now we're actually going slower than we were in 2005.

^^^ The limit? What's that?

Dude , there's no way anyone can compare F1 to NHRA. Never.

'The limit' is never reachable in any form of motorsport. The rules & regulations set the limits. That's it.

If it were up to the racers & teams themselves , things would be a whole lot different in any form of motorsport.

Yeah but the program implied that we had reached a physical limit.

The drivers were at the limit of what was humanly possible, because the forces would make them pass out.

If we made them radio controlled then the limits would be endless as you're saying, but then I wouldn't consider it a sport because of the lack of a driver.

Chris.

Um...where did 'radio controlled' come into this?

I'm just saying it's the only other way it could be done. If you can't get a human to do it anymore, then it would have to be robotic etc. But then it wouldn't be much fun would it?

It's still better than ahve people near-on kill themselves just to set a record.

Chris.

^^^Aahhh sry I thought you drifted off there for a minute.

So you're saying that we HAVE reached the limit of what is physically possible in terms of velocity & g-forces?

I disagree.

If we have , then there'd be no more records being set from now on. But there will be. Humans will figure out a way to beat the limits everyday.

We know how much will put us into an early grave...there's been hundreds of tests concerning physical forces on the human body & doing a 1/4 mile in 3 seconds hasn't proven to be fatal at all...provided you don't crash.

If John Force , Gary Scelzi & Tony Schumacher say that a 3 sec pass will happen , then it will.

Why? Because if it wasn't humanly possible , they'd stop trying to go faster right now & say "that's just too risky". But they haven't & won't until they actually do it & determine how it affects the human body.

And I believe that when it gets done , if it's too dangerous to do it constantly , the NHRA will step in & say no.

People put their lives at risk everyday. Whether it's driving a cab or setting a speed record , humans will always strive to be bigger , better , faster & stronger.

No I totally agree, humans will always keep trying to go that bit further, or in this case, that bit faster.

The only reason they won't be doing it in a rocket car is because a governing body stepped in and ruined all the fun. Look at that in any way you wish, but that's how I see it.

One day it will be beaten, but not by a rocket car. It's the same with anything, one day the Thrust SSC will be beaten. It will be some mean feat, but the record set in the first place was pretty extreme.

I'd like to see them still going, not because I'm a bit sick and like to see people suffer, but I love seeing people really push themselves to the limit, and it deserves respect.

Chris.

There's a massive difference between a JET and a ROCKET. I was talking about rockets. Here's where I found the specs: http://www.the-rocketman.com/space-age-racing.html Sorry, I said it wrong. I don't see anywhere in that anything about NHRA records or any videos of it. I know very well who Kitty AND Ky are. That still doesn't show anything. You'd think that there would be some kind of links or videos.

Well, they jam 500 cui V8s into rails. Ain't that scary? lolYou have no idea how scary they are.

Sorry for being so late, but I could not hold my self from replying!!

Clearly you Americans lack the sense of "Sarcasm",

Now if you gonna go like: DONT LOOK AT THE TROLL!! or if you gonna simply ask me to stop doing what I call community service (educating people) please feel free to do that, I have better things to do in life rather than starting a flaming war with you .lol... whatever man. Yeah, ask everyone here, I have no idea what sarcasm is. lol

The Veyron was never "officially" the world's fastest car but everyone knew it could do well over 400km/h.What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I cannot find a second source to back up the Kitty O'Neill 1/4 mile claim.Exactly...

^^^Aahhh sry I thought you drifted off there for a minute.

So you're saying that we HAVE reached the limit of what is physically possible in terms of velocity & g-forces?

I disagree.

If we have , then there'd be no more records being set from now on. But there will be. Humans will figure out a way to beat the limits everyday.

We know how much will put us into an early grave...there's been hundreds of tests concerning physical forces on the human body & doing a 1/4 mile in 3 seconds hasn't proven to be fatal at all...provided you don't crash.

If John Force , Gary Scelzi & Tony Schumacher say that a 3 sec pass will happen , then it will.

Why? Because if it wasn't humanly possible , they'd stop trying to go faster right now & say "that's just too risky". But they haven't & won't until they actually do it & determine how it affects the human body.

And I believe that when it gets done , if it's too dangerous to do it constantly , the NHRA will step in & say no.

People put their lives at risk everyday. Whether it's driving a cab or setting a speed record , humans will always strive to be bigger , better , faster & stronger.

Some new evolutionary G-Decreaser will come out some day :D

Slowing down is as exciting as launching. lol

You have no idea how scary they are.

-----------
What the hell does that have to do with anything?


I've never experienced a rail, but I have a pretty good idea of how scary it is. Enough to make your adrenalin pump through your veins. It's a raw sort of feeling, like you're on the edge of life almost. I know how that feels.

--------
I was just pointing out that something doesn't have to be official for it to have actually happened.

She was also deaf. Trust me dude , her record is real.

I am fairly certain that Guinness World records would recognize her record before most other organizations...

If I had one I would search for you, But my sister nicked them all.

Venom, the more I think about it (and believe me, I think about it a lot), the more I realize that it's got to be just like you got punched in the stomach and are flying back, then your mind goes blank, and you wake up once you hit full G reversal and start braking. At that point you try to put words to what you just went through in a span of 4 seconds.

Wouldn't your balls hurt alot too if your whole body felt the Gs? lol

I was just pointing out that something doesn't have to be official for it to have actually happened.Ahhh, I get it. I apologize for being a smart ass then...

Venom, the more I think about it (and believe me, I think about it a lot), the more I realize that it's got to be just like you got punched in the stomach and are flying back, then your mind goes blank, and you wake up once you hit full G reversal and start braking. At that point you try to put words to what you just went through in a span of 4 seconds.It's not at all like you got punched in the stomach. It's like you just got hit from head to toe by a bomb's shock wave. It's the most intense physical feeling you can imagine. This may sound strange (in fact I know it will) but it's also very erotic feeling...

Wouldn't your balls hurt alot too if your whole body felt the Gs? lolYes...

It's not at all like you got punched in the stomach. It's like you just got hit from head to toe by a bomb's shock wave. It's the most intense physical feeling you can imagine. This may sound strange (in fact I know it will) but it's also very erotic feeling...


Think about it, not many things are more fun than launching in a purpose built drag car. It's not weird at all.

wesley; I have long known of Kitty O'Neill and know she is deaf...

youtube is poor proof of anything. Example: this guy did .07 sec and 89 mph slower. The numbers do not crunch correctly here...

Mythbusters strapped a rocket engine to the top of a car and got it to go moderately/stupidly fast. As much as I hate the French keeping the record books; the FIA has created a reasonably fair and consistent standard for record speeds.

A few weeks before his death, the late Mark Donahue set the closed-course record at Talladega at 236 mph in a 917K-30. He said the car could go faster; but he could barely maintain vision for 15 seconds at 4.5+ vertical G.

A Navy (go figure) pilot volunteer survived 34G on a rocket sled. He didn't have to steer. He bled from multiple orifices and was blind for hours. He didn't volunteer again.

Slowing down is as exciting as launching. lol

Don Garlits (first person to accelerate faster than 1G/they said it couldn't be done) retired because Doctors said the shock of the drag 'chute opening would detatch his retinas and leave him blind. He decided that watching drag racing was more fun than listening to drag racing...

There are street legal cars that can go at 1G now. I guess that theory was way off.

There are street legal cars that can go at 1G now. I guess that theory was way off.

This was over 40 years ago, Venom.

The scientific (non-racing) opinion was that a car could not accelerate faster than 1G; which is freefall in a vacuum. Obviously, they didnt take into account weight transfer.

My higher math fails me now. How about one of you student types tell the rest of us the ET/trap speed for an object freefalling in vacuum 1320'/402.336m???

I'm almost sure they could build cars in the 30's that would accelerate at over 1 G. Some of the old dragsters were pretty fast.

I simply cannot believe that none of you recognise Kitty's record.

Monkey , I thought you'd know about this out of all the members here.

I don't talk sh1t. I know this record exists.

I think this sums it up as fact that the rocket did have that ET and speed.


http://http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Apr%202002/SOD-040102.htm (http://http//www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Apr%202002/SOD-040102.htm)


NHRA sets rules for rocket cars

http://http://the-rocketman.com/RPV/dragsters/PAULA-ARTICAL-BUILDING-CAR.jpg (http://the-rocketman.com/RPV/dragsters/PAULA-ARTICAL-BUILDING-CAR.jpg)

1st link is dead; 2nd link is older than when Simple's parents could ride a bike and makes no relevant point.

2 words


richard hammond.

Don Garlits (first person to accelerate faster than 1G/they said it couldn't be done) retired because Doctors said the shock of the drag 'chute opening would detatch his retinas and leave him blind. He decided that watching drag racing was more fun than listening to drag racing...He's retired a few times. lol... He is the Elvis of drag racing and it's in his blood. He's come out of retirement so many times it's ridiculous. He's shown up at events, BORROWED a Top Fuel rail, and done time trial passes just because he got in the mood. lol...

He's over 70, that's the most impressive part!

I'm almost sure they could build cars in the 30's that would accelerate at over 1 G. Some of the old dragsters were pretty fast.No, back then they couldn't. They didn't have the tires first of all.

I simply cannot believe that none of you recognise Kitty's record.

Monkey , I thought you'd know about this out of all the members here.

I don't talk sh1t. I know this record exists.I know who she is... I just don't know about her records.

richard hammond.What about him? He crashed a car. woo hoo... I've gone into the wall, nobody's saying "two words monkey fkker" lol

What about him? He crashed a car. woo hoo... I've gone into the wall, nobody's saying "two words monkey fkker" lol

That's hardly fair.

What the original post was implying was that "two words; Richard Hammond" ie. Rocket cars are a tad on the wrong side of a Euro-N-Cap safety rating star.

I'm pretty sure that the crash was hardly 'just' a crash. I'm near certain that it's worse than anything you've been through, and that, even if it wasn't - not even half the amount of people would give a rats arse.

Chris.

lol... oh how did I know you'd pop up and say something. I couldn't care less about a 'Euro-N-Cap' safety rating. You have no idea what I've been through and I don't give a **** who cares. At least the ones that would care would actually mean it and not cry over someone they see on tv and don't even know. My comment was to KR, not you, and it wasn't meant to be fair or unfair... it was meant as a joke. If you don't like it, don't post here.

lol... oh how did I know you'd pop up and say something. I couldn't care less about a 'Euro-N-Cap' safety rating. You have no idea what I've been through and I don't give a **** who cares. At least the ones that would care would actually mean it and not cry over someone they see on tv and don't even know. My comment was to KR, not you, and it wasn't meant to be fair or unfair... it was meant as a joke. If you don't like it, don't post here.

Erm...I don't think it is fair to say "not cry over someone they see on tv and don't even know". Dude, the family wanted support through tough times, and if you aren't able to see why public support might help pretty much a motoring icon through his operation, and his family through the prospect of his death, then maybe you need to understand what makes us human.

Why are you getting involved in this? You obviously don't understand what I meant so just leave it alone. I wasn't putting Hamster down at all, or the people who prayed and cared for him through his ordeal. I was making a joke to KR... did you not see the "lol" after it? I understand more than anyone on this forum what makes us human. If you'd like, there are a couple people on this forum who can vouch for that. I know what it's like to be in the position he was in.

I doubled the Http. Small screw up:rolleyes:

Here is the fixed link: http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Apr%202002/SOD-040102.htm

See if it works.

Why are you getting involved in this?

I understand more than anyone on this forum what makes us human.

There you go again. Putting yourself above the rest of us. I know it may be subconcious, but it still has substance. Are you really above the rest of us? Are you above Richard Hammond? Are you God's right-hand-man? Or his boss?

I think you can be a bit too brutal with your comments, and that's why others feel the need to respond to them. We understand the importance of respect and consideration - 2 things which you promote - but all the time you represent the opposite. Just be a bit less governing I supppose, that's all.

It may just be your sense of humour, but it doesn't always sit flush with everone else, and it just needs to be explained in some instances.

Chris.

There you go again. Putting yourself above the rest of us. I know it may be subconcious, but it still has substance. Are you really above the rest of us? Are you above Richard Hammond? Are you God's right-hand-man? Or his boss?

I think you can be a bit too brutal with your comments, and that's why others feel the need to respond to them. We understand the importance of respect and consideration - 2 things which you promote - but all the time you represent the opposite. Just be a bit less governing I supppose, that's all.

It may just be your sense of humour, but it doesn't always sit flush with everone else, and it just needs to be explained in some instances.

Chris.
Ha ha, you have no idea how much he actually holds back on this forum. His comments arn't brutal at all. In fact, if you read his posts carefully you actually LEARN things from them. A lot of my knowledge comes from him, and other members like him on here. I really don't see what there is to complain about. You havn't seen some of the mods I've met on other sites. They're the type that get you banned or take points from you for not having the same opinion as them.