After the first two events of the new 2008 season, it's one win to McLaren and one to Ferrari- but McLaren's Lewis Hamilton leads the championship standings by 3 points from Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen.

Mistakes and subsequently two non finishes from Raikkonen's Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa means the pressure is really on him to deliver this weekend if he wants to have a serious chance of winning the championship.

Meanwhile, Hamilton has consistently scored points ans so has his team-mate Heikki Kovalainen, who has not strayed out of the top 5 so far, and who finished behind Robert Kubica and Kimi Raikkonen in the Malaysian GP a fortnight ago in 3rd place.

So, in the hot climate of the desert, who will come out victorious? Will it be the silver cars with Hamilton spearheading their challenge? Or will the red cars follow through with their crushingly dominant victory last time out in Malaysia?

It's all to play for!

_

Personally I think that Ferrari will continue their extremely impressive form and take victory this weekend. They have been exceptionally fast in practice, and have dominanted both sessions so far with two 1-2s, all spearheaded by Massa, and then Raikkonen. Hamilton and Kovalainen have been a few tenths of a second off the pace, so they all have some hard work to do tonight (especially on Lewis' car, as a heavy crash coming out of Turn Seven in P2 has heavily damaged the right rear of the car) to overturn Ferrari's advantage in time for qualifying.

P1:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42204

P2:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42206

_

There's also controvery this weekend, as the already controversial Max Mosley has has a sex allegation filed against him - some of which he denies - and has sued 'The News Of The World' [the paper that published the story] for unlimited damages.

But, don't let that spoil a weekend which is shaping up to be brilliant!

Well going by the strong pace massa has shown I'd say a pole is right there for the taking. Easily. So the top 3 grid may go
1. Massa
2. Kimi
3. Kovy

Just my prediction. Though to be honest, I have no clue whatsoever.

Massa does indeed look strong here, hes been faster than Kimi all through practice so i think we might see him on pole.

Kimi will get on the front row, both Ferraris are clearly faster than the rest of the pack by a good half a second.

The second row will be interesting. It will be a battle between the McLarens and the ever improving BMW's. Kovy looks good here, so did Hammy untill he got a bit wide and VOOM! Kubica also looks quick, maybe not as fast as the silver cars, but he might go for a low fuel first stint and get himself high up the order to try and score more points. Quick Nick? Where was he today in practice? 14th and 17th is not where i would have put him based on recent outings. But we shal see tomorrow if that was just them running higher fuel outings than the rest.

Looks like its shaping up to be a Ferrari double with a great battle just behind. Cant wait!

I think the grid will be, Kimi, Massa, Kubica, Hammy/Heikki, Trulli & Heidfeld. But, I guess this week is Heidfeld's turn to be 'preferenced' so he may be ahead of the Pole-Star!

Woot! Kubica is on the first pos. Wowie. Big party for the BMW guys.

Tomorrow it will be a good race. Let's see!

I hope Glock does well, but paradoxically I hope Toyota fails on an epic level because their paintjob sucks so bad.

let's see what happens if Massa's right foot gets heavy again:D

And what's this about Hamilton's big crash? problems with the car or driver error?

I've been waiting to say this for a long time.
The pole is on pole. Woot.
Way to go Kubica. To be honest it was deffinetly a pole made from many different things. Alot of skill from kubica, low fuel and a bit of luck.
Massa was caught behind Rosberg, so thats why he didn't get pole. Quite unfortunate.
But it makes for one interesting race tommorrow.
Also, where was Kimi, I expected a bit more speed. But he was nowhere to be seen.

Though, halirious moment, "and Massa goes across the line now" *complete silence*
You fool, it was Kimi. Thats right allen, pretend like it never happened.


I think tommorrow will be interesting. For one, Kubica must be quite low on fuel. Plus Massa will be right behind him. Actually come to think of it. It'll be mayham. All the cars could be qued up behind Kubica. Then comes the pit stops. Damn I can't wait till tommorrow now

Woo, what a Pole Star =) I've always liked this guy, from that first race where he came 3rd, yeah he was disqualified, but hey, not his fault!!

Though, halirious moment, "and Massa goes across the line now" *complete silence*
You fool, it was Kimi. Thats right allen, pretend like it never happened.



That was hilarious! Even watching the small timing clocks with Massa's name on it. It was at about 1:15 when Kimi crossed the line and he was shouting "MASSA CROSSES THE LINE....."
"WHERE DOES HE GO??...."
"................."
"Erm, no, that was Raikkonen"
I laughed a lot!!

Great qualifying, a monumental pole position for Kubica, very pleased for him because he has deserved this for a while now and it shows just how fast he is when hes got a decent car underneath him. All im thinking is, he must be quite light on fuel to do that time so how his race will pan out will be interesting to watch.

Massa was so unlucky, he was easially the fastest man there today, just had a bit of bad luck right when he really didnt want it and he lines up on the dirty side of the track. Definately a shouldve-been moment for him today.

Hammy imo was brilliant. Not really that quick in Q1 or Q2. Was 4th in Q3 and not looking all that great. Then out of nowhere he pulled out a stonking lap time to put him right up there, and at the time faster than Massa and Kubica. Hats off to him because he got on with it and just to put it infront of Kimi is a great achievment considering Ferraris obvious speed advantage here this weekend.

Kimi shouldve been higher than 4th. Still a good qualifying from him but was not quite on terms with Massa all through quali. Should be good to see him tomorrow fighting away, think he can make up a few places.

Kovy. Pretty uneventful qualifying after looking quick yesterday.

Nick. Its looking like he hasnt quite got the pace to challenge Kubica at the moment.

Trulli did well for Toyota, but i think hes a bit lighter on fuel than the Williams behind him. Will be an interesting battle here tomorrow i think.

Rosberg back where he was at the start of the season after a terrible weekend last race. He can make up some ground and we should be in for a decent scrap between these few cars in the race.

BUTTON 9th!!! Thats simply fantastic for him and for Honda. Seems like progress is indeed being made with im sure a little help from Brawn. They should be going from strength to strength from here on in.

Alonso struggling. The Renault appears to be quite poor here this weekend, really not on the pace.

Bordais did well i think, he seems to be settling into F1 quite nicely. Outqualifying Vettel by a good margin is impressive. Hope he can do well tomorrow.

Coulthard didnt have the best of sessions, way down in 17th is im sure, not where he would like to be. Lets see if he can come through the pack.

Think it makes for an interesting race tomorrow. Will Kubica be able to hold off the Ferrari of Massa? And, will Hammy, Kimi and Kovy get into that batte aswell?

My prediction:
1. Massa
2. Hammy
3. Kubica

Roll on tomorrow!!!

Hammy imo was brilliant. Not really that quick in Q1 or Q2. Was 4th in Q3 and not looking all that great. Then out of nowhere he pulled out a stonking lap time to put him right up there, and at the time faster than Massa and Kubica.

What I liked about his final lap was how slow his first sector was. After seeing him 4 tenths back I didn't expect him to be anywhere near Massa's time. Kubica's lap was even better though.

I missed the qualifications but I'm definitely seeing the race. this is turning out to be a good one! and to be honest, I really can't predict, I'll just wait and see in 17 hours. :D

:D !!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't wanna sound big headed but look at the Pre Bahrain GP thread and see who I predicted to be on pole :D.


GO KUBI GO !!!!!!!!!!!


Great qualifying for Kubica, Kimi is definently fueled for the win, Massa I predict will play second fiddle to Kimi again and 'wonder kid' won't finish on the podium :).


So it looks like BMW are becoming serious competitors to McLaren & Ferrari, I am gonna love the rest of this season if it carries on like this :D.

Lastly:

A POLE ON POLE :D !!!!!!!!!!

All this excitement is making me dizzy lol :p.

Kimi = win, pah, don't make me laugh.
I expect overtaking to be near immpossible now at the front. So it will come to pit stops. Where Massa will deffinetly get past, and Lewis might just if he gets it just right. But then we'll see Massa shoot off into the distance, plus lewis if he gets past, but not as fast, while Kimi and Kovy will still be behind the pole.

Sad to say that Alonso is at position 10. Damn... Renault needs to get things together.

Sad to say that Alonso is at position 10. Damn... Renault needs to get things together.

Oh really? I was thinking the opposite.

Renault EPIC FAIL FTW!!!
:D

I hate Alonso, and the fact that he came back to Renault expecting that it would be just as it was when he left is, well, STUPID.

Good job for Kubi though!!!!

Race Prediction:
1.Massa (maybe Kimi)
2. Kubi (maybe Massa)
3. Whichever one of the above two isn't in 2nd

Poor Taku, he lost it on the last corner and he has to start last.
:(

^^ I think Alonso knew that going back to Renault would be difficult, but he raised them up once, and beat Schumi, so you know, no reason why he couldn't do it again...

WOW Wonder Breads passing skills are amazing.

Best in the world definitely.

HA

Coulthard's fastest lap on 4 is from 20TH place!

Haha, being the wonderkid? millions! Running into the back of your ex-team mate? priceless!

I knew that was your line, cheeky!

Hammie's lap 10 was 9th fastest. In clean air.

Massa sets fast lap again on 12 with Hammie 13th fastest.

Kimi sets fast lap back to back on 14 and 15!

Heidfeld, then Kovy set fast laps on 49.

FINISH!

Congratulations to Ferrari. Massa gets his first win not from pole while Kimi takes over the driver points lead!

A good day too for BMW, who take over the constructor points lead.

Toyota is probably not too disappointed with steady 6th and 9th place finishes by Trulli and Glock; who held off a nuisance Alonso for 2/3 of the race.

Cheer up, silent Mac fans. Kovy sets fastest lap for the second race in a row.

That was a great race, this traction control thing is definitely making it's mark. Those BMW's have proved themselves today! I am SOOOO impressed with them, and Kovy's start was legendary...but do you think he knew Hammy wasn't going to 'go', 'cos he seemed to pull out pretty early! Also, Hammy & Alonso put me in a great mood too!

Alonso and Hamiliton. I really want to know what happen there. If it was on purpose, its not the first time alonso's tried somthing like that.

But man of the day. Massa. Such a cool duel between the ferrari's. He had an amazing start, getting to the first corner like he was the one of pole. Not only that, he was the one with more fuel. So there you go ITV, massa was just plain faster.

Kimi did well at the start. Kovy got past him, but then Kimi got past Kovy. Then onto Kubica. I never saw Kimi even take Kubica. That would've been good to see. But then he couldn't catch Massa :P

Though Lewis, dissapointing really. McLaren just weren't fast today at all. I think at the start he must of been asleep, cause the car seemed fine. He was just as fast as Kovy, which shows McLaren just lacked pace.

Truili yet again is as impressive as ever. Perfect quali, perfect race. I really want to see Truili on the podium this year. He deserves it. Toyota are looking promising right now.

But heres the big question, with the title battle clearly becoming a 3 way battle. Is there room for a four way battle?

YAY MASSA!!!!
If you check my predictions, I called the race winner...
I was happy that he and Kimi had a 1-2 finish...

Hamilton EPIC FAiL FTW!!!!
:D:D
I was soooooooooooo happy when I saw him having to fight with Super Best Friends for POSITION. What he did to his front wing (I think), was that he accelerated to try and use a little slipstream from Alonso, but then he got too close, Alonso lifted, and Hamilton went straight into the back of him.

I feel kinda bad for Kubi, because he qualified well, and then he just had a bad start, and got outraced by Kimi. BMW are leading the Constructors though...that's good for them.

Did anyone besides me notice that in the post-race interviews, when they mentioned Kimi leading the Drivers' Championship, he smirked a little? Emotion from Kimi?!?!?!?
:D
Also, I have to say this:
Force India FTW!!!
Fisi got 12th!
12th!...

That was a good race, and a good result!

I dont know why they thought Alonso lifted. You could see before the crash how close Lewis was getting to Alonso around every corner. And when it happened Alonso's car did not appear to slow down at all, Hamilton just got a better line through the corner carried more speed and decided to drive it into Alonso's rear wing! I think he was just trying to scare Alonso, and make sure he could overtake him on the first go to make himself look better, but it backfired. Luckily.

Here is what REALLY HAPPENED, according to Hamilton:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/4/7608.html

Yes, it was a good race. BMW has given me the impression that it's a really stable team in these 3 first races.

Poor Hami. Bad luck for him. Why did he do these mistakes at the start and when he hit Alonso?

Ferrari had a good evening. Great job from Ferrari.

Kudos to Mark Webber. He overpassed 4 F1 cars and he finished 7th.

What a race! I was pretty sure that Massa was gonna win this, congrats Ferrari. Hamilton didn't have a good race today but the wonder-kid is determined and I'm sure he'll make up for it.

SO LEWIS,

IS THE PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU ????? :D:p
ALSO HOW WAS IT AT THE BACK WITH THE MONKEY'S ????????

LOL :D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Overall a veeeeeery good race, Kubica fantastic, Kimi could have done better but hey he his leading the drivers championship so no complaints really :D.

So 'wonder kid' is really starting to struggle, first of all the start (not the first time is it ????) then the Alonso incident (I thought he was the best F1 driver ever :rolleyes: ?!?!?!?!?!?)

LOL 'wonder kid' you should really look and think about the last 2 races, not the best from the best driver are they :D ?????

SUPERB race weekend imo :D.

WOW Wonder Breads passing skills are amazing.

Best in the world definitely.

HA
Yeh, cus everyone said he was the best. :rolleyes:

SO LEWIS,

IS THE PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU ????? :D:p
ALSO HOW WAS IT AT THE BACK WITH THE MONKEY'S ????????

LOL :D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So 'wonder kid' is really starting to struggle, first of all the start (not the first time is it ????) then the Alonso incident (I thought he was the best F1 driver ever :rolleyes: ?!?!?!?!?!?)

LOL 'wonder kid' you should really look and think about the last 2 races, not the best from the best driver are they :D ?????

SUPERB race weekend imo :D.
Somehow i dont think its pressure getting to him. Its 3 races in.
Because Kimi did so well when he wasnt at the front in Melbourne didnt he. :rolleyes:
Again, no one ever said he was the best F1 driver ever.

Hes had some bad luck, a few daft errors but hardly that bad. The start was a bit daft from him, the Alonso incident just seemed a bit odd at first but it was just one of those things. Bad day all round for him and probably one he would much rather forget!

SO LEWIS,

IS THE PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU ????? :D:p
ALSO HOW WAS IT AT THE BACK WITH THE MONKEY'S ????????

LOL :D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Overall a veeeeeery good race, Kubica fantastic, Kimi could have done better but hey he his leading the drivers championship so no complaints really :D.

So 'wonder kid' is really starting to struggle, first of all the start (not the first time is it ????) then the Alonso incident (I thought he was the best F1 driver ever :rolleyes: ?!?!?!?!?!?)

LOL 'wonder kid' you should really look and think about the last 2 races, not the best from the best driver are they :D ?????

SUPERB race weekend imo :D.

So I expect that Kimi will be able to get to the front after making two small mistakes (one of which could almost be attributed to another driver) then spending the entire race with a damaged car.

I hope Webber can repeat results like that, or even improve on them. Seems like Red Bull have a decent car this year.

So I expect that Kimi will be able to get to the front after making two small mistakes (one of which could almost be attributed to another driver) then spending the entire race with a damaged car.

Yeh he did that in Melbo...oh wait....no....

The thing is, there is no driver there which could have come back from 18th to fight for any kind of decent position, let alone a podium. If Kimi, Massa, Alonso or anyone else did it you wouldnt get people going "See, he cant overtake!!" but when Hammy does it people go spare!

True beaver, very little was said about Massa's great performance at silverstone last year. People notice more the time he got stuck between a group of cars in Hungary.

Also, I have a big question that needs answered. What happened Sutil. last year he stunned the padock on a few occasions, like Spa and Monaco. But now, hes seems to have lost all that speed. While Fisichella is aiming for P2 and setting amazing pace during the races. Sutil has been fighting of super aguris. Even in the race this weekend he was the slowest. I would of though he would leave Fisichella in his dust. But its the other way around. A bit strange.

^^ I think Alonso knew that going back to Renault would be difficult, but he raised them up once, and beat Schumi, so you know, no reason why he couldn't do it again...
Exactly what I was thinking. I felt a bit sorry that he was so down low in his finish positions lately. Maybe he isn't good without TC :p

Haha, being the wonderkid? millions! Running into the back of your ex-team mate? priceless!
LOL!
*imagines what the drivers were thinking in the race*
Alo: This is what you'll get because of 2007!!!
Ham: *whistles* Hey, it's Alonso, I'll just overtake him to the right
Alo: HAHAHA!
Ham: OMG, WTF???
[later in the race]
Ham: Dam you, slowpokes! (he made a gesture towards a "lower team", I think it was a Toyota)
Kub: Muhahahahahaha!!!
*end imagination*

Here is what REALLY HAPPENED, according to Hamilton:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/4/7608.html
It seems that Alonso knows Hamilton enough to screw with him:
Then I had the incident with Fernando. I was behind him, and I moved to the right, and he moved to the right and that was it - a racing incident I guess.

SeaBass (Sebastian Bourdais) isn't having much luck in the beginning of his F1 career, hope it gets better for him...

The first 1/3 of the race was absolutely exciting! And I'm quite happy Toyota and BMW are getting their act together. I hope all the other struggling teams get a chance like BMW!.....

Yeh he did that in Melbo...oh wait....no....

The thing is, there is no driver there which could have come back from 18th to fight for any kind of decent position, let alone a podium. If Kimi, Massa, Alonso or anyone else did it you wouldnt get people going "See, he cant overtake!!" but when Hammy does it people go spare!

As much as I agree with how people would react like that, I wouldn't say that NO driver could accomplish that feat...

All I have to say is....Interlagos '06
Schumacher dropped down to D.F.L (Dead F*cking Last)(22nd), and he fought his way back to 4th. And in the closing stages of the race (last 10 laps), he was reeling Kimi in, but unfortunately he didn't have enough time to catch and pass him.
Also, Massa's performance last year at Silverstone was a good example

As much as I agree with how people would react like that, I wouldn't say that NO driver could accomplish that feat...

All I have to say is....Interlagos '06
Schumacher dropped down to D.F.L (Dead F*cking Last)(22nd), and he fought his way back to 4th. And in the closing stages of the race (last 10 laps), he was reeling Kimi in, but unfortunately he didn't have enough time to catch and pass him.
Also, Massa's performance last year at Silverstone was a good example

I thought he passed Kimi?

Anyway, my point wasnt that no driver could come through the field and get a result as many drivers have done that. But that it was very difficult today, in Hamiltons place to come back through. You cant say he cant overtake because thats crap, he can overtake and is arguably one of the best on the grid. But it doesnt mean that he will go past everyone in 1 lap. There are many factors, how long it takes to pass someone, how many actuall opportunities there are in a lap, how much time you loose behind cars, how big the gap is to other cars, weather your tires are any good when you get an opportunity, weather theres any damage etc.

I thought he passed Kimi?

Anyway, my point wasnt that no driver could come through the field and get a result as many drivers have done that. But that it was very difficult today, in Hamiltons place to come back through. You cant say he cant overtake because thats crap, he can overtake and is arguably one of the best on the grid. But it doesnt mean that he will go past everyone in 1 lap. There are many factors, how long it takes to pass someone, how many actuall opportunities there are in a lap, how much time you loose behind cars, how big the gap is to other cars, weather your tires are any good when you get an opportunity, weather theres any damage etc.
Oops! you're right, lol. He DID pass Kimi to get into 4th...

I understand that, but you missed one point...
and that is how the turbulent air right behind the car in front of you (his slipstream). That can affect how close you can get to him, and how easy it is to pass him...

Some of you don't do your homework or actually READ previous posts. Instead you post opinions based on loyalty/fandom/emotion.

sonicadg: "McLaren just weren't fast today at all. I think at the start he must of been asleep, cause the car seemed fine. He was just as fast as Kovy, which shows McLaren just lacked pace."

Kovy set multiple fast laps and ultimate fastest during the race.

lambo or holden: "... after making two small mistakes (one of which could almost be attributed to another driver) then spending the entire race with a damaged car."

After replacing the nose; 3rd qualifier Hamilton consistently was about 10th fastest throughout the race. He made multiple passes for position both before and after pitting. They could have raced 'til sundown, and only attrition would have put Hammie in the points.

This hardly qualifies as a damaged race car. Damaged F1 cars are: A, in the back; B, blackflagged; or C, in the garage.

-----

After the complaints (even a whole thread!) about F1 TV announcers; I have to give kudos to SPEEDtv's Bob Varsha and David Hobbs! Their excellent commentary cued me when to watch the TV instead of Live Timing on the 'puter.

After the complaints (even a whole thread!) about F1 TV announcers; I have to give kudos to SPEEDtv's Bob Varsha and David Hobbs! Their excellent commentary cued me when to watch the TV instead of Live Timing on the 'puter.

I like the style that Varsha, Matchett, and Hobbs use. They always seem to give an equal amount of focus to everyone in the field (although more attention to Hamilton). I was sad when I missed out on meeting David Hobbs when he came to my city (for some Concours D' Elegance)...

But Renault data seen by ITV Sport proved that Alonso was accelerating normally when the accident happened, and that the speed difference was purely a consequence of the McLaren getting a much better exit from the corner.

"Fernando came out of the turn and accelerated down the straight into fifth gear, hitting 227kph, full throttle, no touching of the brakes or anything like that," Renault's engineering director Pat Symonds was quoted as saying by The Guardian.
I honestly think they should apologize to Mr. Alonso. They really pushed the fact that Hamilton did nothing...

Hamilton didn't do anything. Mclaren have apparently said that the bridge element of the front wing had broken, causing a suden increase in speed, due to less downforce, and as they both moved right, Hamilton hit the back of Alonso's car.

But Hamilton also contacted Alonso on lap 1, which may have caused his front wing to break so I guess it was his fault...these things don't just 'break'!
"On lap one he touched me at turn four, hitting the rear diffuser, and then on lap two he jumped into my rear wing.

You can imagine how I felt when I turned on the TV to watch the end of the F1 and found Hamilton in 13th :(

Its interesting though - I was watching the British GT on Motor TV earlier, and for comparison, I admire F1 so much, but in the 15 minutes of British GT I watched there were three crashes and numerous spins. Although F1 is interesting, I find British GT more exciting.

But back to F1. As far as I'm concerned, Massa deserved that win 100% - some truly admirable driving even in the glimpse I got. BMW did great too - nice to see them staying strong. Lets see what they bring to Barcelona, I say!

I like the style that Varsha, Matchett, and Hobbs use. They always seem to give an equal amount of focus to everyone in the field (although more attention to Hamilton). I was sad when I missed out on meeting David Hobbs when he came to my city (for some Concours D' Elegance)...

It's easier to trust commentary from somebody YOU have watched race! I wasn't into the "scene" of the paddock and the drivers. I was into the racing and the partying (never slept during a race!). I have only 2 driver autographs: Dorsey Schrader and the late Davey Allison.

All should keep in mind that the promoter of the event contracts the TV production for the race. SPEED, ITV, BBC, etc. can only provide audio for the video feeds/replays they receive. You used to watch lots of Shumi from Germany and still watch lots of whoever drives a red car at Monza or Imola. Compared to some F1 races; Bahrain coverage was pretty fair and balanced.

For those still not paying attention: F1 Live Timing/Scoring is exactly what each team and broadcasters see. It highlights fastest sector times and tells who pits when (even while TV is on commercial break!). Next time I cannot watch Live Timing and TV broadcast simultaneously; can I get live audio + Live Timing? (Tell me, Obi-Wan Kenobi...)

It's easier to trust commentary from somebody YOU have watched race! I wasn't into the "scene" of the paddock and the drivers. I was into the racing and the partying (never slept during a race!). I have only 2 driver autographs: Dorsey Schrader and the late Davey Allison.

What series did you race in? and what did you race in (car)?

OF COURSE I haven't seen most of these guys race (I'm too young to race), but I've seen and known a fair few people (Bobby Allison among others). Plus, I'm only 1 "degree" away from drivers like Nigel Mansell, James Hunt, Roland Ratzenberger, Michael Schumacher, and a bunch of other F1 boys (My dad has met MOST of these guys, and my friend's dad met Schumi a couple of years ago in Montreal)...

Oops! you're right, lol. He DID pass Kimi to get into 4th...

I understand that, but you missed one point...
and that is how the turbulent air right behind the car in front of you (his slipstream). That can affect how close you can get to him, and how easy it is to pass him...
And clearly you're missing another point as well.

Yes, behind slipstream, you are in theory alot faster as you produce less drag than the guy infront of you. But at the same time, once you are in behind the car infront, you LOSE ALOT of downforce. Meaning that your car is very slippery and as a result, you might not push it to the limit because the car would suddenly become alot harder to get it under control.

And clearly you're missing another point as well.

Yes, behind slipstream, you are in theory alot faster as you produce less drag than the guy infront of you. But at the same time, once you are in behind the car infront, you LOSE ALOT of downforce. Meaning that your car is very slippery and as a result, you might not push it to the limit because the car would suddenly become alot harder to get it under control.

If you notice, that's why I mention how close you can get to the driver in front. Of course your car loses downforce, and you (unless you're insane), will probably back off so that you can control your car. I'm not missing ANYTHING.

^^ Yes you are. If you back off, you WILL be out of the slipstream. So in that case, you wouldn't be faster than the guy infront of you unless you have a lower drag configuration to your car.




watch this... http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_nQSdQwtFA

I didn't mean back off as in drop off half a second, I was talking about easing your distance behind your opponent in the hopes that you can get him at a corner.

Just a heads up for all the UK viewers, if you caught the end of the F1 next week theres a BTCC (I think BTCC) Race at Rockingham broadcasting on ITV4.

Just a heads up for all the UK viewers, if you caught the end of the F1 next week theres a BTCC (I think BTCC) Race at Rockingham broadcasting on ITV4.

YAY!!!
I have to make a note to watch that...
did they say what time?

Do any of you "not missing anything" know about the "tea tray" controversy and its aerodynamic consequences?

YAY!!!
I have to make a note to watch that...
did they say what time?

Don't think so...I'll check ITV
EDIT: Right - found it - http://www.itv.com/Sport/btcc/default.html

Bloody hell I have to watch that!

Do any of you "not missing anything" know about the "tea tray" controversy and its aerodynamic consequences?

Aw, I wanna answer :(

Aw, I wanna answer :(

Go for it!

Apprently Kimi was suffering at Bahrain
http://www.manipef1.com/news/2008/index.php?id=853

I think the kimi thing is either made up or over exaggerated by Kimi lovers.

Even so, this is why i respect Raikkonen. Cause we don't hear him wince like a child. He gets on with things, and thats because they don't really bother him.
Some others just go on like children

I think the kimi thing is either made up or over exaggerated by Kimi lovers.

Even so, this is why i respect Raikkonen. Cause we don't hear him wince like a child. He gets on with things, and thats because they don't really bother him.
Some others just go on like children
A great example would be Alonso not winning the championship.

I know it hasn't happened often in 1+ years...: does anyone else think that Hamilton drives like a rookie any time he's not out front in the fastest car?

I know it hasn't happened often in 1+ years...: does anyone else think that Hamilton drives like a rookie any time he's not out front in the fastest car?

Personally, i gotta say the same thing about Massa. Just look at last years race in Hungary

I know it hasn't happened often in 1+ years...: does anyone else think that Hamilton drives like a rookie any time he's not out front in the fastest car?
Yes, at times i think he does make some rookie mistakes, but is this not to be expected? Everyone makes errors, no one has ever had an error free career.

Whats impressive is that he can stop those rookie errors as soon as he has an opportunity to win, he just needs to learn how to keep a steady race. I think sometimes hes in too much of a rush, he tries too recover lost ground sometimes a bit too quick. And hes a little agressive with his driving style so those two combined dont often result in a decent performance. Im sure with experience he will be able to improve on this.

no. I think this weekend isn't much to go by.
But hes been fine in 2nd and 3rd plenty of times before. Like last year, Monaco, and Spain were too fine performances.
Though i think without TC, Lewis may find it harder considering how agressive he is. So that could include tire wear and the odd mistake.

no. I think this weekend isn't much to go by.
But hes been fine in 2nd and 3rd plenty of times before. Like last year, Monaco, and Spain were too fine performances.
Though i think without TC, Lewis may find it harder considering how agressive he is. So that could include tire wear and the odd mistake.

True, and when he fought back from the back to 9th in chaotic conditions in Germany was also a great example.
Tyre wear is my main concern for Hammy, weve all seen how much faster he wears down his tyres than the rest of the field and it bit him big style in China, he needs to try and redcue this as much as he can without sacrificing any time.

First off, sorry I haven't been at all active in this F1 thread (and on SCF, for that matter), I've been pretty busy the last week or so and the last couple of days I was ill, so sorry. Next race I'll try to get involved with the conversation lots more, instead of just posting one thing at the end.

The Bahrain race weekend was just under a fortnight ago so I'll try to keep this a bit shorter than some of my other posts.

Coulthard's fastest lap on 4 is from 20TH place!

It was a decent showing from Coulthard, as you said he did get a fastest lap early on but his race was pretty much over when he collided (:mad:) with Button at Turn 9, I think it was.

Cheer up, silent Mac fans. Kovy sets fastest lap for the second race in a row.

Didn't Heidfeld get fastest lap in Malaysia? And McLaren have a lot of work to do, on this race weekend BMW were ahead of them and so were Ferrari, so that's two teams they have to make up ground on. They have a test in Barcelona, which has just finished I think, and I don't think a McLaren topped any of the days there, but they said it was a productive test and they should have found some speed there, but Massa was 2.7 seconds faster than anyone on Day 1, albeit on slicks.

But heres the big question, with the title battle clearly becoming a 3 way battle. Is there room for a four way battle?

Four way battle as in drivers? Possibly, but we're only three races in and we'll see how Kubica and Heidfeld compare as the season goes on (assuming you're on about them, which I'm pretty sure you are). At the moment Kubica seems to have the upper hand against Heidfeld, but Heidfeld hasn't had a perfectly smooth race weekend, so we'll just have to see what happens as the season progresses. Personally I think he will get faster, he simply won't get slower just like that over the winter.

SO LEWIS,

IS THE PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU ????? :D:p
ALSO HOW WAS IT AT THE BACK WITH THE MONKEY'S ???????

What pressure?? We are three races into the season and the championship table has barely taken shape yet. You did not see any Hamilton fans saying ''SO KIMI, THE PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU??'' after Melbourne because Kimi had problems; we knew he would be back up to speed in Malaysia and duh, he was, as he won there. And, suffice to say, Hamilton will be back up to speed in Barcelona.

Kimi didn't have the strongest season he could have had in 2007, and every race weekend nobody rambled on about how he was crap, couldn't overtake, because it simply wasn't true. You know it, we all know it, that Hamilton isn't crap either, so I don't think it's fair to jump onto his back and say he is rubbish just because he has had one bad race weekend.

Yeh he did that in Melbo...oh wait....no....

The thing is, there is no driver there which could have come back from 18th to fight for any kind of decent position, let alone a podium. If Kimi, Massa, Alonso or anyone else did it you wouldnt get people going "See, he cant overtake!!" but when Hammy does it people go spare!

I agree, it doesn't happen with any other driver. When Hamilton has a bad race weekend, it's usually because the set-up isn't too his liking or the car isn't fast enough. Some people expect Hamilton to be on the front row every single race weekend and on the podium on the race Sunday, and they just use those times where he has a bad race to jump onto his back and lay into him like you would. Quite frankly, the Hamilton bashing has to stop - it's immature and stupid, and what the people who bash him fail to realise is that everyone else does not bash everyone else's favourite driver when they have a bad race weekend.

True beaver, very little was said about Massa's great performance at silverstone last year. People notice more the time he got stuck between a group of cars in Hungary.

Also, I have a big question that needs answered. What happened Sutil. last year he stunned the padock on a few occasions, like Spa and Monaco. But now, hes seems to have lost all that speed. While Fisichella is aiming for P2 and setting amazing pace during the races. Sutil has been fighting of super aguris. Even in the race this weekend he was the slowest. I would of though he would leave Fisichella in his dust. But its the other way around. A bit strange.

He's basically had a lot of mechanical problems early on in a few races, which means that he's not totally up to speed on the new car's setup. I reckon he'll come good once he finds his 2008 shoes, and he'll be right up there with Fisichella.

Also, an interesting little thing about Fisichella: He says that Renaul't struggles this year have "pleased" him. Ha.

Just a heads up for all the UK viewers, if you caught the end of the F1 next week theres a BTCC (I think BTCC) Race at Rockingham broadcasting on ITV4.

Yeah, I saw the race, was pretty good, especially the last one. Unlucky for Plato though, a bad weekend for him.

Anyway for Massa, to simply sum it up (it's late here and I'll be busy Saturday and SUnday I think, if anyone wants me to edit and add any stuff or opinions, I'll gladly do it), a perfect win for him, just what the doctor ordered.

Even when Kimi got quite close there was no catching Felipe, when he got the start over Kubica, it was basically race won for him. In fact I got incredibly p*ssed off when Button got a bloody puncture, dropped him all the way back to the end of the bloody field, then got bloody taken out and bloody retired.

:mad:

A perfect oppurtunity to get some good points for Button. He gets a good start, and some people are like "Whoah no TC, omfg what do i dooo?" and drive all over the shop. It's just unlucky for the people that can actually start well and get caught up with the people infront of them who don't, who inevitably panic and do something stupid.

So yeah, a dominant win for Massa who's title challenge is now definitely underway, but I can't help but think that those 0 out of 20 points in the first two races of the season will come back to haunt him at the end of the season.

Kimi, not really on the pace all weekend, but luckily for him the F2008 is so bloody fast that he can be disappointed with second. Who wouldn't love to be in his shoes right now, eh? I get the feeling he can bounce back in Barcelona because we all know he wants to.

BMW, a very good race weekend for them aswell, one guy on the podium in Kubica (who potentially could have finished ahead of Kimi if Kubica didn't slow down because of the oil on the track in the opening laps). But still, a very cindicating result for him, that's two top threes in a row, that can only bode well for the rest of the season. Heidfeld solidly inside the Top 8 which is great for their team, who lead the Constructors Championship, and rightly so.

Renault and Williams struggled a little bit this weekend, they just seemed a bit off colour and not really with the programme. Trulli beat Rosberg to the points in this race, which Rosberg must be disappointed about, but I'm sure he can bounce back. The Williams seems faster than the Renault aswell.

Renault seem strange, they have had a hell of a lot of time (half of 2007) to get this 2008 car up and running and it doesn't seem as though they have done it well. They're lingering, most of the time, on the outside of the Top 10 and Alonso won't like that one bit.

He recently denied there was a get-out clause in his contract which meant he could join Ferrari in 2009, which was interesting to say the least.

Toyota with Glock did well aswell, and so did Barrichello, not a bad race from him at all this weekend. Red Bull got some points with Webber who finished in 7th place, which is great. DC wasn't so lucky as he wasn't on the pace of Mark this weekend.

Back teams; Super Aguri got a double finish which is good for them, but they might not even be at Barcelona next week: their takeover by the Magma group has fallen through and they need factory support from Honda to keep themselves up.

Super Aguri did great with Fisichella up into 12th position, unlucky for Sutil not to be on his team-mates pace. STR weren't bad in the race either, some good times from them posted.

All in all, not the most legendary race this season, but a great win for Massa which he really, really needed. Roll on Barcelona! :)

_

Race Report:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42246

I agree, it doesn't happen with any other driver. When Hamilton has a bad race weekend, it's usually because the set-up isn't too his liking or the car isn't fast enough. Some people expect Hamilton to be on the front row every single race weekend and on the podium on the race Sunday, and they just use those times where he has a bad race to jump onto his back and lay into him like you would. Quite frankly, the Hamilton bashing has to stop - it's immature and stupid, and what the people who bash him fail to realise is that everyone else does not bash everyone else's favourite driver when they have a bad race weekend.


Hamilton had a bad race weekend because he couldn't get the car off the line and because he crashed into Alonso...{twice}, two mistakes which were his fault. Heikki drove better than him. End of...

Wrong and wrong. Well one incident may have been his fault at the first corner, but the first corner is the worst place to have an accident. It has also been confirmed that the bridge element of the front wing was broken just before the alonso crash, causing a sudden burst of acceleration, causing the crash. If I hear another person say, well he shouldn't have been that close, simply doesn't understand the concept of motor racing.

How do we know heikki was faster ? Hamilton had a damaged-ish car, and a turned out engine. It is a very rare occasion where both drivers are both going for it with perfect cars.

Benny is spot on. Simply put, some of you have a go at Hamilton for seemingly unapparent reasons. You cheeky, are far to obsessed with Alonso. Nige, likes raikkonen too much, but at the very least can have some respect for hamilton sometimes, and I most emphasise the sometimes here lol. At the end of the day, these people are possibly the most talented drivers on earth. We could never tell who is the best without putting them through a series of trials, through a variety of different cars, which is massively unlikely. At the end of the day, give the drivers the respect they deserve, instead of just blanketing them with insults, and intolerable ignorancy.

^^ Nope, Hamilton crashed into Alonso on the first lap and that broke his front wing, therefore it was his fault! And, also, how can not getting your car off the line be anyone elses fault!!! The car does what you tell it to do!!

I didn't say he was faster, I just said that he drove better! He had a very quick reaction at the beginning when he saw Hammy wasn't going anywhere, and he didn't crash into anyone!

I haven't said anything about Alonso!!

Not this time, but I'm referencing from the past.

The first "crash" did not disable his front wing, or at least, this isn't what I've read. The data and telemetry from Mclaren have shown that a sudden burst of speed was gained when he was behind Alonso, causing that crash.

However, I agree with you on the start. Hamilton made a stupid mistake, and hekki made a good get away.

I still wouldn't say he drove better, as it is still hard to compare.

^^ Well I read that it did, and that it's also what caused his wing to break. Yeah that's because Alonso is my favourite driver, of course I'm gonna support him and not Hammy!

I read that it wasn't and can find the article and post it if you so wish.

Yes, all fine and dandy supporting your favourite drover, but there is a difference between supporting your favourite driver and giving respect to his opponent, and supporting your favourite driver, and showing spite to his opponents. I am afraid you often fall into the previous catergory.

Well, wing's don't just break....

I don't like Hamilton, sorry, but that's just the way it is! I'll admit he's a good driver at times, but I don't like the way he is in general. Of course I'm gonna be biased towards Nano! I don't see why you have a problem with my comments, surely I have the right to say pretty much what ever I want too...

I'm afraid wings do very much "just break". His front wing could have been made from a bad batch of carbon fibre, where the strands are weak, and caused it to break. I can remember quite vividly a few years back when the back of Raikkonen's Wing randomly exploded, causing him to spin out into a crash.

I have a problem with what you say due to the fact you often insult Hamilton. It's not even because I'm a fan of his, it's purely because of the fact that there is no need for it.

You don't like him, that's fine. Not liking someone is great. But, when you start insulting them, it's different. You and a few others often insult him showing no respect for his tremendous abilities. Before you give me the he isn't that good stuff, every driver on that damn grid has tremendous abilities. They out class mostly all drivers on earth.

Yes, you can say what ever you like, and also so can I. And in that respect, I'm also saying whatever I like.

I'm afraid wings do very much "just break". His front wing could have been made from a bad batch of carbon fibre, where the strands are weak, and caused it to break.

Carbon Fiber does not work that way. It is applied in layers ranging from -45 to +45 degrees usually. So if a wing breaks it has to have been preloaded previously to the point of overcoming its tensile strength or compression strength, at which point the Matrix would fail (matrix= resin) not the fibers themselves. Separation of matrix from fiber is the most common failing point on composite work, and for this to happen YOU NEED TO HAVE HIT IT FIRST. The wing did not "just break", he made it break.

And leave Cheeky alone, she is the only Britt that I have met so far who is not involved in this whole "wonder Bread" is the best driver in the world omg. I admire her ability to not follow a trend and actually follow someone in the sport that she likes.

Carbon Fiber does not work that way. It is applied in layers ranging from -45 to +45 degrees usually. So if a wing breaks it has to have been preloaded previously to the point of overcoming its tensile strength or compression strength, at which point the Matrix would fail (matrix= resin) not the fibers themselves. Separation of matrix from fiber is the most common failing point on composite work, and for this to happen YOU NEED TO HAVE HIT IT FIRST. The wing did not "just break", he made it break.

And leave Cheeky alone, she is the only Britt that I have met so far who is not involved in this whole "wonder Bread" is the best driver in the world omg. I admire her ability to not follow a trend and actually follow someone in the sport that she likes.

Wouldnt the fact that it was damaged before he hit Alonso have something to do with that? Or do you mean hit then immediately fail?

And Nemphis is a Brit, he is definately not in the Hamilton fan group!!

I'm afraid wings do very much "just break". His front wing could have been made from a bad batch of carbon fibre, where the strands are weak, and caused it to break. I can remember quite vividly a few years back when the back of Raikkonen's Wing randomly exploded, causing him to spin out into a crash.

I have a problem with what you say due to the fact you often insult Hamilton. It's not even because I'm a fan of his, it's purely because of the fact that there is no need for it.

You don't like him, that's fine. Not liking someone is great. But, when you start insulting them, it's different. You and a few others often insult him showing no respect for his tremendous abilities. Before you give me the he isn't that good stuff, every driver on that damn grid has tremendous abilities. They out class mostly all drivers on earth.

Yes, you can say what ever you like, and also so can I. And in that respect, I'm also saying whatever I like.
I probably insult most drivers...

Carbon Fiber does not work that way. It is applied in layers ranging from -45 to +45 degrees usually. So if a wing breaks it has to have been preloaded previously to the point of overcoming its tensile strength or compression strength, at which point the Matrix would fail (matrix= resin) not the fibers themselves. Separation of matrix from fiber is the most common failing point on composite work, and for this to happen YOU NEED TO HAVE HIT IT FIRST. The wing did not "just break", he made it break.

And leave Cheeky alone, she is the only Britt that I have met so far who is not involved in this whole "wonder Bread" is the best driver in the world omg. I admire her ability to not follow a trend and actually follow someone in the sport that she likes.
Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right, I've definitely read that before!

Aww, thanks :)

Carbon Fiber does not work that way. It is applied in layers ranging from -45 to +45 degrees usually. So if a wing breaks it has to have been preloaded previously to the point of overcoming its tensile strength or compression strength, at which point the Matrix would fail (matrix= resin) not the fibers themselves. Separation of matrix from fiber is the most common failing point on composite work, and for this to happen YOU NEED TO HAVE HIT IT FIRST. The wing did not "just break", he made it break.

And leave Cheeky alone, she is the only Britt that I have met so far who is not involved in this whole "wonder Bread" is the best driver in the world omg. I admire her ability to not follow a trend and actually follow someone in the sport that she likes.

Right, you may be right bout the carbon thing, even though it does not explain crashes whereby the wing breaks without previous contact, but that second statement is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.

Honestly, are you trying to say that I am only involved in this sport because of Hamilton ? I have watched this sport for years upon years, and now, a BRITISH driver comes along with an exceptional talent and can challenge for world titles, and you believe that I am "following a trend" ? You do realise to say that is like an English person saying they are going to support Scotland in the world cup, so they aren't following the crowd ?

It is natural to support your home team, and it is natural to support your home driver.

Even though cheeky may not support Hamilton, it seems pointless and derogatory to insult other drivers. Just because one driver is your "favourite" doesn't automatically mean all other drivers are inferior and should be insulted.

^^ I really don't remember saying anything particularly bad about Hammy....

Wouldnt the fact that it was damaged before he hit Alonso have something to do with that? Or do you mean hit then immediately fail?


Ok I will try and explain this as best as I can. As an engineer when you design something you always use a factor called S.F. = Safety Factor.
What this means is for example if what you are creating needs to hold 100 lbs, you usually add a S.F. = 2, so you end up designing your part to hold 200lbs. Everything in life uses this, most passenger airplanes use a s.f. = 7-8 for obvious reasons. Now in F1 or in military airplanes, you do not use such high numbers, because you would end up with a heavy beast. So F1, usually uses a S.F. = 1.1 or 1.2. So now to the wing. The front wing on an f1 car is designed to create negative lift, or downfoarce. Which means it needs to hold a load pretty much. When designing you calculate what this load would be. Say at max speed on the straight away the wing element will feel 1,000 lbs of force. From there you add the S.F. and end up with 1,100-1,200 lbs which is your target design goal.

This will be a tension force as it is pulling the car down, and will be felt mainly by the support of the wing (those two sticks that hold the wing to the nose). Now fibers are a very interesting subject, all the math is based on theoretical, and hypothetical perfect fiber to matrix layout which does not exist. The reason why it is lay in diverse directions, is because a fiber strand will hold more load under tension than compression. A LOT MORE. Typical carbon fiber strand can hold something like 230 ksi in tension while only 32 ksi in compression. But the tension force is not always going to be perpendicular to the gourd, as the car moves air is trying to push it backwards, so now you have tension in the O degree (perpendicular to ground) and on the 90 degree (parallel to ground), and all that is in between. So you lay the fiber in different directions. if you look at carbon fiber it looks like a checkered board, this means that there are strands being layed in the horizontal direction and some in the vertical to make the weave. Some carbon fiber has 3 strands in the horizontal and only one in the vertical. So if you place this fiber with the majority of its weave at 0 degrees you need to use tension in the 0 degrees for this to work. So for the wing, what you do is place one ayer at 45 degrees, the next at -45 degrees, the next at 0 degrees, and the following at 90 degrees, and repeat. This will ensure that the wing element will be able to hold in tension forces ranging from 0-90 degrees in tension.

Under compression its a whole different beast, the resin or Matrix holds more force that the fibers themselves. So when you hit an F1 wing to something you immideately apply some force in compression to one of the fibers layers, and this fails rather easily, when this goes, the whole thing is compromised.

What happened with "wonder bread" it was not a bad batch of Carbon Fiber, or Kevlar Honey comb, he hit Alonso initially, and this weakened his wing, after that the wing will not hold as much down force any more as the matrix which holds all the fibers together is compromised and failure will happen, when a force is applied which now exceeds the resins tensile strength. Because although some fibers can still hold in tensile, the matrix has been broken, and without this fiber is just nothing.

This is why, "wonder Breads" front wing broke, if you want to believe the whole THEORY that the wing broke and he suddenly got a burst of speed and hit the back of Alonso's car.

Reality the guy just got to close, pulled out without space and ripped his front wing. It is racing, and accidents and Stupidity happens. But it was his fault, not carbon fiber, not the unicorn which was galloping next to him throwing him lucky charms which impaired his vision.

It is hard to explain fibers, but I tried the best, hopefully alot of you will have better understanding, of why things happen, and that usually you just have to see reality for what it is DRIVER ERROR.


p.s. Dude you have Button driving too, and I never heard all of you say omg he is the best in the world, and now you all have seem to forget about the guy. Plus Hamilton is not so talented, he is just in a good team. Remember its F1, they are all talented drivers, but I am sure you put Sat on a Mclaren and he will compete for the championship, as if you put Hamilton on a super aguri and will manage a 15th best place in the whole season. And just because he is fro your country does not mean you all have to become all fan boyish. Hell Montoya was Colombian, and yeah I saw him race and all, but I never followed him, or said omg he is the best in the world look how he pases Michael. Learn to follow a team in F1, drivers come and go.

I've always been a fan of Mclaren and Williams, which, you may or may have not realised yet are British teams.

True, drivers come and go, but drivers who are from your country, challenging for world titles do not come around very often at all. I support Hamilton because I am proud to be British, and I can say, Lewis Hamilton is British, this is what we offer up.

No, I don't often talk about Button much, but I do follow what he does. I infact have written a short article type thing for an F1 e-reporter competition and based it on Button, because we don't hear much about him anymore, because of Lewis. I also desperately wanted him to get the second seat at Mclaren, hence creating my perfect driving team.

To say Hamilton isn't talented is pure stupidity I reckon. Yes, he is in a good team, but so are all the best drivers in the world, that's kinda the point. Last season he often outclassed Alonso, in the same car, and he was the reigning world champion. Alonso did outclass Hamilton too, but on differing occasions. Now, using this evidence, I can only deduct that Hamilton is a superb racing driver, and one of the best in the world. That isn't fanboyism, that's just fact.

I am one of the few people on here who tries to constantly drum in the fact that ALL of the F1 drivers have exceptional skill, however, again and again and again and again we come on here to find that people say stuff like, so and so isn't so good, it's just his car. Yes, a fast car helps, but only the best pilot can make it the fastest car.


Also, thanks for the further explanation on Fibre. It makes more sense to me now why it broke.

The only thing that annoys me is that alot of you expect Hamilton to be driving along thinking that, "I've had a knock in the first lap, so it's a possibility that my wing may fail if I get to close to Fernando's car". I doubt any racing driver would think that, and if anything, the team should try and relay something back to him. But, at the end of the day, it was driver error. He was the one who drove in to the back of Alonso regardless of whether he had a sudden burst of speed or not. The tiniest lift of the throttle would have sufficiently slowed the car to stop that accident.

^^ Hate to say I told you so...

liar lol. :p

Shhh! You aren't supposed to know that!