I'm taking a class in school called american issues. In this class, we dicuss various happenings in america. Our latest topic is ethics, which i find is very interesting. Our teacher asks questions such as " if a poor man steals a loaf of bread for his hungry family, is he a criminal?". But, the other day, we watched a video on ethics and morals in sports. In this video, older baseball, football and basketball players scoffed at the players of today. They said it isn't right what they do and that it's all money.

Well, at first I was thinking "pleeeeeease. Times have changed, and sports have become a business. Well know it, and we all really dont care". But boy, did that point of veiw change. It's crazy what the players get away with. First off, their contracts and such are insane. Bench warmers and 3rd string quarter backs in pro sports get more money than probably all 9 supreme court justices put together. It's crazy. Some of these people don't do much at all. Yeah, they go to practice and work out and such. But they rarely play in games or in front of crowds. It's crazy.

And the way these players today act. I'll use the case of Litrell (dont know if thats how you spell his name) Sprewell. Since i dont know how to spell his name really, we'll call him Mr. S. Mr. S gets paid about $16 million dollars a year. Apprently, he's a great basketball player, but he's a moron in reality. I mean, he's just not smart. He attacked his coach not once, but twice, just because he didn't like what his coach was doing. During one of these attacks, he was reported to choke his coach, and the team had to pull him off. This is the worst part: The coach had very distinct hand marks around his neck, and Mr. S just wouldn't admit that he outright choked him. "Well, i wouldn't call it a choke. I had my hands around his neck, but i mean he could breathe". Pleeease. What happened to the days of honesty? Why couldn't he just say "yes, i got angry and i choked him, and i apologize". That would be so much easier. But no, he wouldn't admit it. And why would he choke his coach anyways? Weren't the coaches the ones who knew what was right? The coach was someone you had respect for and listened to, no matter how silly his demands. Why is the player all of the sudden better than the coach? It's sick. These players get million and millions of dollars to be over-sized brats. They do whatever they want, and nobody stops them because they're famous. The sport has become smaller than the player itself. It's not about the game, it's about the fame and fortune.

So, after the video, we discussed how sports have gone down the crapper. Everyone agreed that just about every pro sport is about the money and not about the sport. But i disagreed. I stated that pro motorsports are the only form of sports that isn't morally corrupt. I gave examples in formula 1, SCCA racing, WRC and NASCAR (even though i dont like NASCAR, people can relate). Think about it. Drivers always listen to their team managers and crew cheifs. They rarely break the rules just because they can. And if they do, they apologize. All drivers have respect for their fellow drivers. If they have a grudge, it stays on the track. These guys are in it for the driving. They're lives are devoted to it. And they really have no choice. They can indulge in drugs and drinking, because it could mean their lives.

And if anyone calls these drivers "normal, everyday guys", i'm going to freak. Pro drivers (except for nascar drivers. They can be like, 50 and have a beer gut and still be on top) are about as fit as any athlete in the whole sports spectrum. I'm convinced that any of these men can run a triathalon without any real training. Drivers have always been at tip top physical and mental condition. They have always been real men. Ever since the sport became popular, the drivers have always been some of the greatest men alive.

This is the reason why i think driver's are the best men in sports:

If a football player or a baseball player messes up a little by striking out or missing the game winning field goal, they might lose some fan support and get yelled at by their coaches. Yet they still go home in their escalades and kiss their supermodel wives goodnight. If a driver messes up a little by crashing or causing damage to the car, they're out of the race. If they're out of the race, they lose points. If they lose points, they do bad in the total points, and their team doesn't get as much money and the driver might be out of a job. Hell, a driver could start a race and never finish it or race again. He could lose his life. I'm not saying pro-drivers dont drive fancy cars and live lavish lives. I'm just saying they work for it.

Point of topic: Do you agree with my rant? Are pro-drivers the only real role models left in sports, or am I crazy? Do you have any more examples of immoralities in sports? The point of this discussion is pretty simple. So discuss and enjoy.

Well... I certainly have more respect for pro-drivers than some other athletes in other sports!
You're right about their physical condition, M. Schumacher can run more than a football (soccer) player!

But of what I've heard Schumacher is an arsehole. The motorcycle guys like Rossi are who I really respect. He was in a pub in Phillip Island and a guy says "nice jacket" and Rossi hands it to him.

wow im impressed, i should have done ethics this year!

but yes, I agree with you, I can really only relate to WRC, but they dont have any time to mess up their own lives, if they are not competing from 6am to 8pm (includes scruitineering etc) for 4 days in arow, 16 times a year, they are on the test circuit, developing the cars and improving their own driving. without actually doing the Dakar, or driving non stop for 4 days in a row, WRC is the most challenging drive for anybody, in temperatures from -20' in Sweden to in car temperatures of over 60'C in places like Greece and Cyprus, and in every event, drivers lose a significant amount of weight, and in the hotter events, drivers suffer from lack of moisture and heat stroke so they lose a lot more weight. put all the physical properties together, of very little sleep because of receing etc, fighting against a car that half the time wants to go the other way you want it to, and put you life in the hands of the person sitting next to you telling you what is around the next corner. and despite this, Colin McRae signed the biggest deal in rallying for a long time, £3million for a 2 year contract, that is nothing compared to other sports or even F1, and the amount of effort required is much more. it is something that always amazes me, running 7 - 8 stages every day ffrom Friday - Sunday, and a day of testing on Wed & Thurs, to be able to pull off the amount of driving and not knowing where you are going!! at least on a circuit, after 5 laps, you know where you are going, and you know around the next corner there is not a crash, because there are people with flags telling you about it, and you can usually see!
In Sweden most cars return from stages without wing mirrors because they lost them on trees, thats how close this sport is :) and also, if there is another car in trouble on the stage, they always stop o check they are ok, even if it means they lose the race, one of the amazing things of the rally community

so on a closing point, I agree, and masters of motorsport really are the only true genuine sportsmen & women left who are in it for the pleasure (to a degree, i know some people do do sports for fun professiuonally too), because I know most people would not take up driving at 140mph on ice and losing body parts on trees just for a bit of extra cash, its a sport that requires great skill, which is why I think it remains purer

I have great respect for pro-drivers but i won't agree with that the other sportsman are doing everything only for money. For example football players (for americans - soccer players) they are training twice a day. They are playing in temperatures from -10'C up to 40'C some times they lost about 4 kilos of weight in one 90 minute game and they love it more then anything else in the world. And not all of them gets 100000 euro a week. Lastly i read an article about NBA player that for NBA reality have small contract something about 1 millon dollars for year and he is key player for his team, so even in NBA we can find true sportsman that love what they are doing. I know that motorsport is free from doping and other things like that but we can't minimized (i don't know if it's right word) achievements of other sportsman then pro-drivers only because we like cars very much.

This was kind of made for american sports. I dont know much about sports in europe, but I know that the sports here are in pretty bad shape.

This was kind of made for american sports. I dont know much about sports in europe, but I know that the sports here are in pretty bad shape.

I think that in Europe it's a littel bit better then in US at least we don't have such crap like you with the NHL (i mean the lockout or however it's called).

It's hard not to argue that mainstream professional sports are messed up. However, I think that is is a mistake in looking to sports stars as role models in the first place. I agree with Charles Barkley on this one. He found fault with the public in trying to make sports stars into role models. They're just guys who are good at playing ball games. They are entertainers. Why should we try to expect them to be in some way ethically or morally superior? Like anyone else, some are probably great guys. Some are certainly jerks. Certainly the culture of money, idolization, privilege, and lack of accountability in modern professional sports doesn't seem to be conducive to creating moral and ethical superstars.

There are a few athletes that I admire for their ethics and human qualities. By and large, however, I look for my role models outside of sports.

As for whether or not motorsports athletes are better than others, I have to say that you don't see NASCAR drivers or other professional drivers in the news for assault, drug offences, domestic violence, rape, drunk driving, and murder very often, while this is pretty much a common occurance in mainstream american sports.

I live in the US and have been in numerous countries around the world including some in S. america and europe. One thing that seperates the "sports ethics" in various countries is the people who are fighting. In america the players of most sports do the fighting (NBA) and in say england the spectators do most of the fighting (soccer/football).

I don't view race car drivers in the same league as lance armstrong as far as fitness goes but they have skill in their own righr making them good at their respective sport. You cannot compare a linebacker to an olympic endurance runner, they train for different things and specialize in 2 completely different aspects of physical competition. Both are physically fit athletes but do different things all together.

It's hard not to argue that mainstream professional sports are messed up. However, I think that is is a mistake in looking to sports stars as role models in the first place. I agree with Charles Barkley on this one. He found fault with the public in trying to make sports stars into role models. They're just guys who are good at playing ball games. They are entertainers. Why should we try to expect them to be in some way ethically or morally superior? Like anyone else, some are probably great guys. Some are certainly jerks. Certainly the culture of money, idolization, privilege, and lack of accountability in modern professional sports doesn't seem to be conducive to creating moral and ethical superstars.

There are a few athletes that I admire for their ethics and human qualities. By and large, however, I look for my role models outside of sports.

As for whether or not motorsports athletes are better than others, I have to say that you don't see NASCAR drivers or other professional drivers in the news for assault, drug offences, domestic violence, rape, drunk driving, and murder very often, while this is pretty much a common occurance in mainstream american sports.




Lot of colorado people on this forum, what part of town are you in?

and in say england the spectators do most of the fighting (soccer/football).

From what i know in England now are some of the best football fans (i mean they guys that are going to the game and are singing songs and doing that sort of things) in the world. But the football spectators are big problem in some countries in Europe for example in Italy or in Poland.

Lot of colorado people on this forum, what part of town are you in?

I'm in Boulder.

You go to 2nd Creek, Pueblo, or Bandi much? Do any AutoX?

no more discussion on this? Man, i thought this was an interesting topic.

I'm in Boulder.

You go to 2nd Creek, Pueblo, or Bandi much? Do any AutoX?

I'm about 5 miles away from bandimere.


I go to second creek quite a bit, i was there the last week of the year when it's free for the whole week. I don't drag race too often but I go about once or twice a year just to see what kind of times I'm laying down. I don't autoX at all, cones in a aprking lot don't interest me too much.

what's second creek?

Next to first creek, near the university of bad jokes.

what's second creek?

It's a race track in Colorado. About 5 minutes from Denver International Airport. It's a pretty nice track to test handling but on the front stright I can only hit 110 or so, pretty tight track to say the least.

ima go ahead and tell ya that american football/basketball has had hella problems with supposed "role models" this year

well, that was a given. The topic is not about how corrupt pro sports are, it's if you think that racers are the only respectable athletes left.

well, that was a given. The topic is not about how corrupt pro sports are, it's if you think that racers are the only respectable athletes left.

I play soccer, but like what was said earlier, WRC drivers have to have a lot of stamina, upper body strength, and a lot more attributes. Espically upper body strength, for when the power steering goes.

Does anybody know how much WRC drivers get paid in US dollars???..
(I was just wondering):confused: