Does anyone think that Honda should bring in the prelude (non-convertible) again with an S2k engine (maybe w/ less features, lighter, and cheaper?), and have a tuned/suped up version of the engine in the honda accord coupe V6 as an optional engine w/ optional twin turbo? :shock:

another thing, how about an S2k with a targa top like on the some porsches? (very similar to del sol)

just some daydreaming......

Dude, if you like the idea of resurecting the prelude, im w/ you. My sister has a delsol s. yeah i Know it's the cheapest delsol but I wish I was allowed to stick a prelude H22 VTEC in it but the girl wants to keep her delsol w/ an automatic. The automatic transmission for the H22 VTEC wasn't available until '97 so i'd have to tear up the center console to make it fit. Oh god, i'm ranting, i'm sorry, but yeah a new Prelude w/ a targa top would definately kick ass. And yes I know you were talkin' 'bout the delsol's younger sibling the s2000 when you were talkin' 'bout a targa top, but it would be a nice feature to have on Preludes.

ummm.... can i have some ppls ideas on how a new prelude which would use an s2k engine, and have an optional a suped up (twin turbo maybe........?) honda accord v6 coupe engine?

never thought of targa top on a prelude......

I agree, I like the idea of bringing back the Prelude. It was a nice economy car which was somewhat "quick." However, I doubt Honda will bring it back since it already offers two coupes, Accord and Civic, along with the S2000. For those reasons it most likely will never come back. As far as the engine goes, a twin turbo would totally rule out the Prelude as an economy car and raise the price alot. Who would buy a Prelude for probably mid 20's? Possibly a version of the Supercharged Inline-4 in the Si could be a possibility... But as I said these are unlikely thoughts and ideas because the Prelude is probably done for good.

they should include a turbo-charged version with a better chip... other than that I could care less if they bring back the prelude. Oh and they should also have a supercharged V6 lol...

ok, the civic coupe is a real ECONOMY coupe, meant to compete with the cars like the toyota echo/scion xa/b, the s2k is a roadster, that could compete with PART of the 350z segment (convertibles only), and the accord v6 coupe is sort of luxury/comfort, that would go up against the solara.

as you can see, there are no "high performance" vehicles that could go up against a 350z coupe (non-convertible), so honda could make a prelude with an accord v6 coupe engine, supe it up a little (supercharger, twin turbo, single turbo, or one of those induction things that at used on the TL type-S a year or 2 ago.....)

i like the other guys idea about a suped up version of the civic Si engine, instead of an s2k engine :idea:

another thing, wasn't the prelude like $27k? :?:

the day that honda makes a turbo prelude is going to be the same day Toyota finally puts a v8 in the camry....it will never happen i'm sad to say

wasn't the prelude like $27k? :?:

if it was then it was WAY overpriced!

it was like 17K

it was like 17K

oh then I guess that's a fair deal...

The highest performing Prelude would be one with the 2.2 Liter F20 engine from the S2000. You can really forget V-6 stock. More likely than not, if it came back, it would have a base engine or two and the Type-S or R with that 240 hp gem of an engine. I'd be MOST happy with simply that. It would be a bridge between the Accord V-6 and the Civic. I don't think it would be TOTALLY without a market, but thats just my wishful thinking. :mrgreen:

The highest performing Prelude would be one with the 2.2 Liter F20 engine from the S2000. You can really forget V-6 stock. More likely than not, if it came back, it would have a base engine or two and the Type-S or R with that 240 hp gem of an engine. I'd be MOST happy with simply that. It would be a bridge between the Accord V-6 and the Civic. I don't think it would be TOTALLY without a market, but thats just my wishful thinking. :mrgreen:

then again the Prelude wasn't aimed at high performance, it was aimed at affordability, comfort, economy, etc...

Well from what i have read you all seem to like them i love them the honda prelude has allways been hondas testing ground for new stuff. the honda prelude was the best car in its day it would spank any accord because 1. accords are to heavy 2. accords cant get the power to the ground like the prelude. and 3. i know in the JDM's the accords got the H22 but all the V-6 ones here are way to heavy because of the V-6 and the fact that its hondas family car. up untill they stoped making the prelude it was the number one car for honda. Honda just wont ever put out a turboed car its not the way honda works. The prelude has only come with the accord engin once and they pulled it in favor of the H22 the H22 is one of hondas best engins the s2000 is a very good car and by no means do i mean to say its not i am just saying the preludes the best in the book for Money and power.

Well from what i have read you all seem to like them i love them...

actually I've never been a big fan of the prelude...

how can you not be a big fan of the prelude at the time it had the best bolck and speed around granted now it may no with the new K20's but it still was the best in its time and still the honda prelude had the best engin and is still the best base to build off off.

how can you not be a big fan of the prelude at the time it had the best bolck and speed around granted now it may no with the new K20's but it still was the best in its time and still the honda prelude had the best engin and is still the best base to build off off.

I would definitely not call it the best in its time (get an RX7!!!) or even better, a CAMARO!!!

as it is the Prelude was the best bang for the buck i mean the RX-7 brand new turbo and all off the lot 45,000 and a prelude the best the SH was only 25,000. so i am betting if i took the money left over and put it in to the prelude it would spank a turbo RX-7 and a V-6 Z28 and i bet an SS.

as it is the Prelude was the best bang for the buck i mean the RX-7 brand new turbo and all off the lot 45,000 and a prelude the best the SH was only 25,000. so i am betting if i took the money left over and put it in to the prelude it would spank a turbo RX-7 and a V-6 Z28 and i bet an SS.

most likely spank the Camaro in handling (although the newer generation camaros handle quite well) but in speed a V-6 Z28 yeah but not a V8 and I was talking V8 which you could get at the time for $35,000 or so over here... and add $10,000 in mods then it would spank yout $25,000 SH! And yeah at that point it would probably have enough handling to beat the pants off it on the track...

well you do know the Z28 is a V-8 and yes for 35000 once again the prelude is only 25000 and you want to say 10000 in mods well ya. if you wanted to to give two people 45000 to put in to two cars then that would still leave you 20000 for the prelude. i mean come on you really dont seem to get it so maybe now you will but if not just say so and i will spell it out for you.

Dont get me wrong i dont just love imports i have some nic domestice

All i am trying to get you to see is that yes the prelude is not the best car ever made or the fastest but for the money it was a damn good deal.

as it is the Prelude was the best bang for the buck i mean the RX-7 brand new turbo and all off the lot 45,000 and a prelude the best the SH was only 25,000. so i am betting if i took the money left over and put it in to the prelude it would spank a turbo RX-7 and a V-6 Z28 and i bet an SS.

most likely spank the Camaro in handling (although the newer generation camaros handle quite well) but in speed a V-6 Z28 yeah but not a V8 and I was talking V8 which you could get at the time for $35,000 or so over here... and add $10,000 in mods then it would spank yout $25,000 SH! And yeah at that point it would probably have enough handling to beat the pants off it on the track...

You can get them(latest Camaros) for less than $20000 here...

First off i am not going to put down a camaro, My buddy has an SS and i cant even come close to him in a race. second the only camaro i saw for under 20,000 was a V-6 and that was not even new then the USED Z28 for 20,995 with little over 1000 miles. third an SS nice car but i know they are a lot more than a prelude yes they are 2 seconds faster than the prelude, but once again the money difference between the two i still think that the prelude would come out on top. I maybe wrong but i dont think so. i wil post a nother reply when i come up with the right amount for the SS.

And really when it comes down to it the prelude is a very nice car and yes so is my friends SS.

you two just dont seem to get what i am trying to say.

dude u can find Z28s on ebay for 12K man

yes i know how ever everything we have ben talking about is right off the lot brand new

I have found prelude for like 7,000 so if you want to go in that direction

dude u can find Z28s on ebay for 12K man

I was talking brand knew... but anyways... my Z-28 cost me $4400 (about $3000 American)

what kind of Z28 and what year

i have ben talking about brand new off the lot not off E-bay
when you take the MSRP of each brand new and take the differance here i know the price for an SS is a lot more than the prelude.

How ever when you take the differance seeing as how the stock prelude runs a 15:3
and the SS runs 13.6. That is two seconds all i am saying is that with the money left over i could make the prelude beat the SS.

So now i hope you see what i am saying i dont know how to spell it out for you any more.

who in their right mind would buy a used GM car? seriously?!?! Squeek, bang, snap, crackle, more money for the inferior quality as the car falls apart!

lol so true raith. and Realm you have a really good point there

who in their right mind would buy a used GM car? seriously?!?! Squeek, bang, snap, crackle, more money for the inferior quality as the car falls apart!

A heck of a lot of people disagree, including me, and especially the locals in Edmonton... anyways I already showed you guys my car... http://autofanatic.topcities.com/z28.html there I guess it gets more advertising lol...

lol, your form edmonton? I use to live there, best times of my life 8)

lol, your form edmonton? I use to live there, best times of my life 8)

sort of... Sherwood Park... near Edmonton (considered Edmonton and area)

There is one other thing i thought of all the cars made here are USDM which means they are heavy and slower than there counter parts in japan. so now i hope you see what i am trying to say and have been saying all along.

yeah americna cars are heavier then the japan market cars

yeah americna cars are heavier then the japan market cars

Yeah but then again the Japanese cars are too small to handle a lot of power...

And one thing... the best thing that would work for drag (if you could do it) is to have the engine take up 90% of the space... that's why double-A Fuellers and Funny cars and such work so well... and you wonder why motorcycles go so fast? that's because they are basically an engine on wheels...

My point is that being a small car is not necessarily a good thing... another problem is that you have to have room for a human being. So get this... provided you had all of the supplies and know-how, if you made the biggest car in the world, put the biggest engine and most powerful in the world (this is assuming that the vehicle doesn't lack physics) and only put enough room to fit a human... you would have the fastest car in existence... like I say if you had everything available that you would need to build and run the beast lol...

Another thing... bigger engines tend to have bigger max-out points performance-wise... yeah I know that with a more powerful engine, you have to reinforce the chassis, differential, suspension, etc., but the thing will still increase in power more than it will increase in weight...

Then weight becomes only a factor for track... btw the Corvettes and Vipers DO compete EXTREMELY well against Ferraris on the track. The biggest problem with the Enzo is 1. It's not fast enough for the highest-end track races right off the bat (I know 11.2 is fast but only for the street), and the thing is one of the least fuel efficient cars on the market. The problem with adding even more horsepower is that the fuel efficiency would go down even more. You would have to pit after at least every second lap!

First the thing that really makes bikes fast is the fact that they have two wheels
Two wheels = less force
Fiberglass = Light weight

all that + engin + rider + less force = light weight which means you dont need as much power to push it up and make it go fast.

Second all funny cars and most drag cars are steel tube chassis which is stiff as you can get and lighter than a stock chassis so that makes the car lighter.

Third i was saying that all the specs. i have put out have been the USDM specs. The JDM specs. are faster and lighter oo yes and cheeper.

So look i dont really care about which is better i like all most every car except anything that says PROBE or GEO,Storm, Prism.

if you are going to drag a car that means you pull everything out of it to make it lighter so it is the same for every thing weight is the enemy. And I have have ben talking a bout street legal nothing on the strip.

And i dont wonder why bikes go so fast I have A GSX-R 600

First the thing that really makes bikes fast is the fact that they have two wheels
Two wheels = less force
Fiberglass = Light weight

all that + engin + rider + less force = light weight which means you dont need as much power to push it up and make it go fast.

Second all funny cars and most drag cars are steel tube chassis which is stiff as you can get and lighter than a stock chassis so that makes the car lighter.

Third i was saying that all the specs. i have put out have been the USDM specs. The JDM specs. are faster and lighter oo yes and cheeper.

So look i dont really care about which is better i like all most every car except anything that says PROBE or GEO,Storm, Prism.

if you are going to drag a car that means you pull everything out of it to make it lighter so it is the same for every thing weight is the enemy. And I have have ben talking a bout street legal nothing on the strip.


uh and don't forget that the motor takes up like 80% or more of the vehicle. Like the crotchrockets have over 200 hp...

are you just that damn bumb i put the engin if you cant read then quit posting

look all a bike has to push is its engin, figerglass shell, frame, and rider but for the most part the wheels.

lets get back to the prelude....
i'll be the first one to buy it if there's a 6th gen...
but just hope that it doesn't carry the K20A again like all the civic and integra typeR and the accord euroR

is the engine that you're talking about the two liter that's putting out 200 hp? because I'd be very pleased with that. Excellent stock performance and still high potential with minumal tuning. Though I would really like to see the F22C(i think that's the code) from the new S2000. that would be one killer Prelude. They couldn't help but slap the Type-R badge on that suka'

Yes i love the S2000 engin but in japan i think that all the accords come with the H22 so i would think that they are going to keep the H22 maby different gears so they can pull up the red line. Any way what i am getting at is i think that if the prelude dose come back in the 6th gen. form i am willing to bet that honda is going to go all out kinda like they did with the 2000. heres what i would like to see now i dont know if this is true but i have read that the accord euro is AWD and i also read that they come with two engins a 2.2 and a 2.4 i am all most willing to bet that the 2.2 is the H22. i do know that in japan the accords come with the H22 so thats where i am getting that. now like i said i dont know if all this is true but it seemed to me like it could be true. Anyway i would like to see the H22 with the accord 6spd AWD tranny. i think that honda should just go all out and put it out to kick some ass. But thats just what i would like to see o ya and maby the 9000 red line that we all love so much about the 2000.

who in their right mind would buy a used GM car? seriously?!?! Squeek, bang, snap, crackle, more money for the inferior quality as the car falls apart!
I've bought many a used GM car in my life, loved them all. You are to opinionated and really need to think before you speak sometimes. To many of your statemnets are 100% biased towards ONLY what YOU like....:roll:

Then weight becomes only a factor for track... btw the Corvettes and Vipers DO compete EXTREMELY well against Ferraris on the track. The biggest problem with the Enzo is 1. It's not fast enough for the highest-end track races right off the bat (I know 11.2 is fast but only for the street), and the thing is one of the least fuel efficient cars on the market. The problem with adding even more horsepower is that the fuel efficiency would go down even more. You would have to pit after at least every second lap!

What are you talking about? First of all this is a HONDA PRELUDE topic....The Enzo Ferrari is from Italy. And it runs a 11.1 sec 1/4 mile....and your track statement is so false it is not even funny. Also its mpg is the same as most supercars, the S7 for one is worse. This has absolutely no relavence in this topic, not to mention your information is wrong.

Can't anyone stay on topic????

lets get back to the prelude....


Yeah really, this got WAY off track....

Arg, okay a 2004 Cobra SVT Mustang starts rattling and squeaking with 55k on the odometer. No, it's not a lemon. It's a typical example of US domestic 'quality'. Sure there are exceptions to this inferior craftsmanship. Can you seriously say that your Camaro will last 200,000 miles with as little matinence as a Prelude? Gimmie a break!. GM makes alot of cars and very few can match the qualitywith the likes of Honda and Toyota. If you don't know how good a Japanese or European import is compared to the US offerings, then you'll be satisfied with the lower quality, cheaper, less reliable GM, Ford, and Dodge products. That's not saying that they break down all the time, that's saying they aren't as well built as their over seas competition, plain and simple, it's been proven over and over again.

Arg, okay a 2004 Cobra SVT Mustang starts rattling and squeaking with 55k on the odometer. No, it's not a lemon. It's a typical example of US domestic 'quality'. Sure there are exceptions to this inferior craftsmanship. Can you seriously say that your Camaro will last 200,000 miles with as little matinence as a Prelude? Gimmie a break!. GM makes alot of cars and very few can match the qualitywith the likes of Honda and Toyota. If you don't know how good a Japanese or European import is compared to the US offerings, then you'll be satisfied with the lower quality, cheaper, less reliable GM, Ford, and Dodge products. That's not saying that they break down all the time, that's saying they aren't as well built as their over seas competition, plain and simple, it's been proven over and over again.

The only thing you like is Jap stuff, everything else is crap to you.
I read your posts and laugh, unless its Jap I know exactly what you sre going to say.:roll:
I know MANY people with GM small block V8s with 200,000 plus miles....Your clueless on so many fronts.

Arg, okay a 2004 Cobra SVT Mustang starts rattling and squeaking with 55k on the odometer. No, it's not a lemon. It's a typical example of US domestic 'quality'. Sure there are exceptions to this inferior craftsmanship. Can you seriously say that your Camaro will last 200,000 miles with as little matinence as a Prelude? Gimmie a break!. GM makes alot of cars and very few can match the qualitywith the likes of Honda and Toyota. If you don't know how good a Japanese or European import is compared to the US offerings, then you'll be satisfied with the lower quality, cheaper, less reliable GM, Ford, and Dodge products. That's not saying that they break down all the time, that's saying they aren't as well built as their over seas competition, plain and simple, it's been proven over and over again.

i have been reading this board for months and all of your posts are totally baised towards asian crap. you need to shut your mouth sometimes cause you talk about cars you i bet you have little or no experiece with

Ya know im glad someone finally said something about thus raith kid. his posts have been botheing me for months, but i dont psot that much so i didnt say anything...but raith you need to back off on all the neg non asian car comments.....all you ever say is honda this and honda that and american sucks and this sucks SHUT UP ALREADY

get ONE quote where I say "American cars suck" and get me ONE quote where I say "Anything besides Asian sucks" and I might consider shutting up. You think I don't know that driving a car is quite diffrent than reading about it? Wiat, we're talking about quality issues which require research and reading. I can't look at a car and tell you that the shock buschings are defunct and squeak every time i go over a bump. I can tell you that that I've read countless articles, reveiws, reports, and stats on all sorts of cars and *gasp* it turns out that the quality of an average american car doesn't stack up it's European and Japanese compatriots. Show me a N/A American I-4 that gets 200-240 hp, show me an American V-6 that gets 280-290 hp, show me an American Turbo I-4 that gets 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, you can't. Show me an American car that can run for 200k miles with just a few tune ups, ahow me an American car that has a lower 5 year cost than it's competition, you can't. Show me an American car that can compete with it's overseas counterparts on ever level in every aspect and I'll show you a very rare American car. Don't tell me to shut up, I have just as much the right to talk as you do, you nescient hypocrite.

and becuz you completely go against raith, you aren't biased?

you guys are just biased towards american cars...

Yeah, I dunno what it is. It's like I'm being non-patriotic or I don't take any pride in America. It's kinda funny cause people forget that pride comes before the fall... Don't be too proud or it'll blind you. Am I proud to be an American, yes, but I'm even more rpoud to be part of the human race, and I think that's very important.

I'm with Raith... he's one of the very few voices of reason in this board... :roll:

get ONE quote where I say "American cars suck" and get me ONE quote where I say "Anything besides Asian sucks" and I might consider shutting up. You think I don't know that driving a car is quite diffrent than reading about it? Wiat, we're talking about quality issues which require research and reading. I can't look at a car and tell you that the shock buschings are defunct and squeak every time i go over a bump. I can tell you that that I've read countless articles, reveiws, reports, and stats on all sorts of cars and *gasp* it turns out that the quality of an average american car doesn't stack up it's European and Japanese compatriots. Show me a N/A American I-4 that gets 200-240 hp, show me an American V-6 that gets 280-290 hp, show me an American Turbo I-4 that gets 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, you can't. Show me an American car that can run for 200k miles with just a few tune ups, ahow me an American car that has a lower 5 year cost than it's competition, you can't. Show me an American car that can compete with it's overseas counterparts on ever level in every aspect and I'll show you a very rare American car. Don't tell me to shut up, I have just as much the right to talk as you do, you nescient hypocrite.


Sorry I don't have the time to waste like you. I have read LOTS of negitive comments by you against American cars. If you say you havn;t said lots of negative things well then you're a lier too. I don't "hate" Jap cars, I dislike them yes, but you don't see me bashing them always like you do. I just keep my mouth and move to a different topic, you feel the need to post in topics you obvisoly are against from the begining, which is babish. I have owned American and asian cars, and i have had much better luck with the american cars, and i am not american, you jsut have to learn what to say and what not to say....i mean you offended like 4 memebers in this one topic, that should give you a clue.:roll:

The only thing you like is Jap stuff, everything else is crap to you.
I read your posts and laugh, unless its Jap I know exactly what you sre going to say.:roll:
I know MANY people with GM small block V8s with 200,000 plus miles....Your clueless on so many fronts.

Everything else is crap eh? I don't know where to begin to find the words to say to this. This is totally ingoring my affinity towards the Audi/VW's, Alfa Romeo, Spyker, Saab, Maserati, Porsche, and Lamborghini to name a few non-Asian companies which I have repeatedly heaped praise upon in the past. :? I've never said I know everything and I do my best to get a firm grasp on the topic at hand before I even say anything.

i have been reading this board for months and all of your posts are totally baised towards asian crap. you need to shut your mouth sometimes cause you talk about cars you i bet you have little or no experiece with

Apparently that's not nearly long enough to know what I'm really all about. I try give credit where credit is due. Sorry you have judged me on a meager amount of select posts. :?

*cough cough* sorry you weren't here to read these topics then, all of which you were all apparently "clueless" to when you made these negative and hateful remarks:

http://www.sportscarforums.com/showthread.php?t=279&start=0
http://www.sportscarforums.com/showthread.php?t=451
http://www.sportscarforums.com/showthread.php?t=498&start=0
http://www.sportscarforums.com/showthread.php?t=420&start=0

these are all topics that I satrted and don't even begin to include the posts I have made on other peoples topics. stop being so freaking judgemental about me without know me at all and get your brains working instead of your mouths.

Raith just drop it, all your going to do is stir up the pot again.
Not worth it.

I'm with Raith... he's one of the very few voices of reason in this board... :roll:

i'd have to say the same too

Raith just drop it, all your going to do is stir up the pot again.
Not worth it.

What? people are allowed to talk trash to me and I'm just supposed to take it? people tell me to shut up and I'm supposed to obey like a dog? I wouldn't be me if I didn't stand up for my ideals and principals. People talk garbage, I'm gonna set it straight, get it? the only thing I biased towards is quality and what I like in terms of style, be that what it may.
"The only thing you like is Jap stuff, everything else is crap to you"- That is COMPLETELY untrue and I'm not gonna let you jerks get away with it! If had no integrity, I'd totally let all this smack talk drop, but unfortunately for all you haters, I do. :evil:

HEY raith and others....~~
please.. after seeing forums after forums of people discussing jap vs american cars and with people trashing each other.. i think we've had enough of that....

as you can see i'm an absolute honda fan.... but i think a lot of people do not understand that for a car to be produced, there's a whole team of engineers and designers and mechanics that had worked their butts off trying to produce a car that will appeal to a segment of the market.... and that applies to all cars, american or japanese or european...
every car is a product of skill and engineering.. and it's not for us to say whether a car is crap or not unless we're an engineer or motor mechanic of some sort...

HEY raith and others....~~
please.. after seeing forums after forums of people discussing jap vs american cars and with people trashing each other.. i think we've had enough of that....

as you can see i'm an absolute honda fan.... but i think a lot of people do not understand that for a car to be produced, there's a whole team of engineers and designers and mechanics that had worked their butts off trying to produce a car that will appeal to a segment of the market.... and that applies to all cars, american or japanese or european...
every car is a product of skill and engineering.. and it's not for us to say whether a car is crap or not unless we're an engineer or motor mechanic of some sort...

Very well said....some guys don't know when to much is tooooo much though.

Oh, and you're the one to draw the line and put us in our places? Nice move :|

well all this said and really all that needed to be said is that honda makes good long lasting engins. All be it not high hp engins they do last a long time. US cars put uot high hp and as such may not last as long how ever it really comes down to is how the car or engin is used. JDM USDM if they are raced then they wont last that long but if it is for day to day driving and it is taken care of then most engins will last a long time.

its all about how a car is used yes i know that different car companys make a better car engins but anything that is kept up with and used with what it was made for then it will last a long time. how ever FORD seems to be the only thing that cant keep up. Sorry i hate FORD.

well all this said and really all that needed to be said is that honda makes good long lasting engins. All be it not high hp engins they do last a long time. US cars put uot high hp and as such may not last as long how ever it really comes down to is how the car or engin is used. JDM USDM if they are raced then they wont last that long but if it is for day to day driving and it is taken care of then most engins will last a long time.

its all about how a car is used yes i know that different car companys make a better car engins but anything that is kept up with and used with what it was made for then it will last a long time. how ever FORD seems to be the only thing that cant keep up. Sorry i hate FORD.

speaking of ford, my dad used to own a ford taurus, it was ok, until it hit 35k miles, thats where all the problems came in, and my dad always took great care of it; took it to the dealer for EVERYTHING

but since he wasn't satisfied with it's poor record, he bought an accord, and since the day he bought it to now, there weren't any big problems with it (120k miles), unlike the taurus

Ressurect Honda Prelude? Sure, that'd be a cool move by Honda, I think most of us are in agreement. Bashing on people and telling them to shut up becaue of their opinions, or in spite of them? No, not cool. We said everyhing that needed to be said and more. It's turned for the worse. I'm locking this topic to prevent further animosity. :|