Williams anunces Cosworth:eek: engines for 2006 season.
How can they lost BMW:confused: ???!!!!

because BMW has buy a team for it self

BMW and Williams have been having many disagreements over the years and have decided to split. BMW confirmed their plans to buy the Sauber team and create an independent team run solely by BMW.

If Williams still wanted to use BMW engines, they wanted 20 million!

BMW want to buy the Sauber team and create an independent team run solely by BMW.

cosworth engines are not that bad at all, they are atleast more reliable than the mercedez engines. heh

but why the sauber team? sauber is pretty shite, shuda bought honda BAR, or joined up with BAR, that would have been a better team

BAR Honda is already an chasis manufacture, and a engine manufacture, but unlke this Sauber is one of the only 2 teams (minardi too) which d basically nothing themselves, sauber uses ferrari engines and ferrari chasis....its basically a yellow ferrari, so this way BMW is only buying the personel and the research they already have...and then insitute BMW engines, and upgrade t the chasis from what they have learned form Forumla BMW and the chasis that ferrari has dnated to Sauber.

BAR Honda is already an chasis manufacture, and a engine manufacture, but unlke this Sauber is one of the only 2 teams (minardi too) which d basically nothing themselves, sauber uses ferrari engines and ferrari chasis....its basically a yellow ferrari, so this way BMW is only buying the personel and the research they already have...and then insitute BMW engines, and upgrade t the chasis from what they have learned form Forumla BMW and the chasis that ferrari has dnated to Sauber. What the hell are you talking about ???? Are you drunk?
NOTHING you said is TRUE !!!!

yes your right, sauber never used ferrari equipment... my bad....listen man the only thing they have been doing themselves is the new gearbox used during this season , and as of the last two races their own version of the 2005 ferrari engine, based on the ferrari engine, so what is it that im saying that is completly wrong????

actually, i think Sauber did use last years Ferrari engines, well i think they still do?

yes your right, sauber never used ferrari equipment... my bad....listen man the only thing they have been doing themselves is the new gearbox used during this season , and as of the last two races their own version of the 2005 ferrari engine, based on the ferrari engine, so what is it that im saying that is completly wrong????Mostly wrong ! Sauber always built their chassis themselves (they once won Le Mans with their own prototype and a Mercedes engine). Ferrari supplied the engine and the transmission for a while but now Sauber have their own tranny. But they're like everybody else. Besides Ferrari they all have an engine from somebody else. Minardi build their chassis too ! BAR get their engine from Honda.(you said they were building their own engine !)

I've been following F1 for at least 30 years. You better get your facts right before arguing with me !;)

This might clear some things up for some people.

Why Frank said 'no' to BMW

http://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gifhttp://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gifhttp://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gifIn the end, Williams opted for a clean-break strategy after works engine partner BMW 'ditched' the team for Sauber. An 'insider' at Grove HQ said co-owners Sir Frank Williams and Patrick Head, even in the face of a customer BMW V8 offer for 2006, would rather 'push the bloody cars' than rely on Munich for another year. "That's why we're with Cosworth," he told The Guardian.


Publicly, at least, there's no sour grapes after the partnership curdled this season -- at least from BMW, who will now run their own team.

Likely BMW-Sauber boss Mario Theissen wished Williams 'every success' with Cosworth. "But before that," the German motor sport director told Reuters, "a strong finale to the current season is our common goal. "This means BMW is free to concentrate its resources on the new project starting in 2006."

With new directions sought for both Williams and BMW, though, one can't help but lament an apparent missed opportunity for the union.

Theissen said the problem was one of 'total integration.' "What we have missed," he told the English 'Guardian' newspaper of Williams, "is the formation of one homogenous team. Apparently the way to run the business is different between Williams and BMW."
http://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gif
Official: Williams-Cosworth for 2006 http://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gifhttp://images.f1racing.net/if/spacer.gif

WilliamsF1 and Cosworth today announced a wide-ranging partnership agreement for the provision and development of V8 engines for WilliamsF1's entry in the Formula One World Championship. The partnership is not based on a traditional engine supply agreement; both WilliamsF1 and Cosworth will invest in the programme, underlining both parties' commitment to success.

Moreover, the scope of the collaboration includes not just the engine as an isolated element of a race car, but extends to a complete programme of design and development of the entire drivetrain package (spanning engine, transmission, associated electronics, software and installation architecture).

WilliamsF1 has conducted a thorough assessment of the various partnership options available for next season and has been delighted to conclude that the depth of Cosworth knowledge and expertise in V8 development clearly presents the most competitive opportunity for the team and its sponsors. Cosworth is well advanced in the development of its Formula One V8 engine, having routinely exceeded 20,000 rpm during dyno testing since April 2005 at its Northampton headquarters. The two British companies which are separated by 36 miles, both have distinguished pedigrees in their respective spheres. Together they aim to put British excellence at the front of the Formula One grid next season.

On the announcement of the partnership agreement, Frank Williams, WilliamsF1's Team Principal said, "Cosworth is a leading global authority on V8 engine technology. Next year is a brand new start for all concerned given 16 years of V10 engines. Some teams and manufacturers have absolutely no experience of V8s while others enjoy only limited experience. Cosworth, however, have excelled both historically, as well as in contemporary V8-powered international motorsport. The evidence of Cosworth's V8 progress we have seen so far validates completely the expectation we have of enjoying a class-leading package given next season's engine rule changes."

Tim Routsis, Cosworth's CEO reflected, "Our experience and track record with V8 engines is unrivalled and we are naturally delighted to be alongside one of the most uncompromising and pure-spirited teams in Formula One. We have been working on the development of next year's V8 since April 2004 and right from the onset, our performance targets have been set very aggressively. We are confident that our blue-chip partnership with WilliamsF1 can augment the record of winning the championship every decade since the 1960s. We have developed the 2006 Cosworth V8-CA engine with nothing but front-running success in mind for both the near and long-term. The involvement of Cosworth's sister company, Pi, has been instrumental in achieving this outcome."

Patrick Head, WilliamsF1's Director of Engineering said, "Williams has made this partnership decision purely on technical merit. Among the range of options we considered, Cosworth are very well advanced with existing development and are committed to taking the potential of this collaboration further. Our engineers have already reflected on the very productive and highly motivated nature of the relationship between our two organisations. We speak the same racing language and both have something to prove next year and there can be no greater motivation to succeed."

Source: http://www.f1racing.net (http://www.f1racing.net/).



Besides Ferrari they all have an engine from somebody else.

Allow me to correct you;) Renault and Toyota also use their own engine's.

Sh*t, you're right. I forgot about Renault because they are a continuation of Benetton that was taken over. And with TOYOTA I simply ran out of memory...Damn computer...hehe !

Sh*t, you're right. I forgot about Renault because they are a continuation of Benetton that was taken over. And with TOYOTA I simply ran out of memory...Damn computer...hehe !

Do not feel bad Crossle...in another thread I screwed up with a datum about Giacomo Agostini which embarrased me a lot...I mentioned that Alzheimer was catching up with me.

I think that Williams might do in 2006 better than people think. The rules will change and Cosworth has a lot of experience with V8´s.
On the other hand the possible move to Toyota (branded Lexus) for 2007 is a doubtful one.

Keith Duckworth has been retired for along time, so the Cosworth "experience in V8s" doesn't really count for sh*t. Anyway he and Costin sold the company so there ain't much V8 experience left.
This is assuming you where talking about the DFV.

Keith Duckworth has been retired for along time, so the Cosworth "experience in V8s" doesn't really count for sh*t. Anyway he and Costin sold the company so there ain't much V8 experience left.
This is assuming you where talking about the DFV.

It is quite naive -to say the least- to believe that in an industrial corporation experience and expertise rely exclusively on individuals. Your teachers must have taught you that. If not, reading might no be a bad idea.

Umberto, your Cosworth history doesn't seem to be scratch. The the most successful of the Cosworth (or any for that matter) Formula 1 V8s was the Keith Duckworth designed Double Four Valve 2.5/3.0 liter V8. This kids is Keith Duckworth of cosWORTH (the Cos being that of Mike Costin). Now at the time of the DFV's construction Cosworth wasn't all that huge and during the 80s the company was sold off to Audi and Ford. Now lets think about this, would an engine made by a co-owner of a company in the late 60s that sold the company in the 80s to two very large companies now after 20 years owned by mass production car makers have any influence on the company. Of course not, stupid!

Umberto, your Cosworth history doesn't seem to be scratch. The the most successful of the Cosworth (or any for that matter) Formula 1 V8s was the Keith Duckworth designed Double Four Valve 2.5/3.0 liter V8. This kids is Keith Duckworth of cosWORTH (the Cos being that of Mike Costin). Now at the time of the DFV's construction Cosworth wasn't all that huge and during the 80s the company was sold off to Audi and Ford. Now lets think about this, would an engine made by a co-owner of a company in the late 60s that sold the company in the 80s to two very large companies now after 20 years owned by mass production car makers have any influence on the company. Of course not, stupid!

I still think that reading is a good advise. Education, culture and good manners never hurt anybody. Besides the practical aspects of understanding what other people write: I am not discussing history. I am discussing corporate expertise, which, in my opinion does not obligatory disappear when a company changes owners. If that may be the case buyouts and mergers would be impractical.
Cosworth, regardless of past or present ownership has experience (in fact is the second most succesful engine manufacturer in the history of F1, after Ferrari, mind you) which will be useful for Williams when they turn into V8 engines. Wanna bet that Williams will do better with Cosworth than it did with BMW? If I loose, you can be my guest at the 2007 Monza Grand Prix.
You see, I may be stupid but I am a good sportsman.

Apology accepted.
Edit: I suggest you read up on Cosworth history while we're on the subject, it looks like a fair gap in what I'm sure is a good selection of F1 trivia. I would ask you what reading you suggest for my obviously inferior intellect (judged upon the fact when i speak of automotive issues I find it useless to be pretentious) but I am currently half way through Thus Spoke Zarathustra with a lot of books piling up for reading upon my completion. As for good manners I only attacked your argument and refrained from calling anyone naive. One must note an insult with a cultured vocabulary its still an insult, no matter if it reaches the pinnacle of verbosity such as yours.

Apology accepted.
Edit: I suggest you read up on Cosworth history while we're on the subject, it looks like a fair gap in what I'm sure is a good selection of F1 trivia. I would ask you what reading you suggest for my obviously inferior intellect (judged upon the fact when i speak of automotive issues I find it useless to be pretentious) but I am currently half way through Thus Spoke Zarathustra with a lot of books piling up for reading upon my completion. As for good manners I only attacked your argument and refrained from calling anyone naive. One must note an insult with a cultured vocabulary its still an insult, no matter if it reaches the pinnacle of verbosity such as yours.

12 inch whatever...Napoleon Forum Complex...reading Nietzche...now everything makes sense...please do accept my apologies...it was very insensitive of me not to be aware of your condition earlier...a reccomendation, though, neither this forum nor Zarathustra is the right kind of therapeutical catexis for it...

Then please be specific Umberto, tell me what I can do to further society and I'll explain to you why mechanical engineers don't use words of more than 3 syllables

Then please be specific Umberto, tell me what I can do to further society and I'll explain to you why mechanical engineers don't use words of more than 3 syllables

Nothing. Progress may move on lubricant oil but progress and civilization are not equals. Civilization does not depend on mechanical engineers. They precisely choose that vocation because they are not capable of processing words -or ideas- bigger than three syllables.

Umberto, your Cosworth history doesn't seem to be scratch. The the most successful of the Cosworth (or any for that matter) Formula 1 V8s was the Keith Duckworth designed Double Four Valve 2.5/3.0 liter V8. This kids is Keith Duckworth of cosWORTH (the Cos being that of Mike Costin). Now at the time of the DFV's construction Cosworth wasn't all that huge and during the 80s the company was sold off to Audi and Ford. Now lets think about this, would an engine made by a co-owner of a company in the late 60s that sold the company in the 80s to two very large companies now after 20 years owned by mass production car makers have any influence on the company. Of course not,
stupid!

Irrespective of the DFV, perhaps you're all forgetting that Cosworth supplies the 750hp/800hp-(under "push to pass"), 2.65L spec V8 to the Champ Car Series. This engine is very similar in displacement and output to what F1 will require beginning in '06, (though they are turbocharged). Also, these engines have been required to last 2 race weekends for 3 years now, whereas the other F1 teams only have 1 year experience with this concept. This motor, not the DFV, is why Cosworth will shine in '06 and beyond.

cosworth engines are not that bad at all, they are atleast more reliable than the mercedez engines. heh

Ok, thats like the best engine period then. I remember McLaren used to smoke Ferrari as a car but then again, Ferrari owned cuz of Schumi and a little bit of Irvine who still lost!!! Even with Schumi trying to help him and keep back Hakkinen. ROFLE! What a douche.

Anyway, Williams BMW was a great team. I don't know how it will go for WIlliams from now on. BMW will sure be a nice team. What about Petronas? Is it gone? Wasn't it Sauber Petronas? I havn't watched the past year or so. New f1 regulations suck.

Indeed they do suck big time, and apperantly if those rule were'nt inplace, think about it, F1 cars would would be un-restricted to the point where unlimited bhp and grip would be the winning factor, a bit like 70's F1 ''with turbo's'' !!!.
I got bored of F1 when Ejordan announced the end of JordanF1 but i still watch it because there's nothing else on Tv with the exeption of TopGear.

If you enjoy real racing you can always watch DTM, World Touring Cars or Porsche Supercup...

Lister cup is fantastic too and is there Ariel Atom cup too ?

In my opinion, the determining factor in F1 back then was the strategy. Because of no limit to pitstops/tire changes/refueling, some cars started light with little gas and made an extra pitstop while the others started full and got that extra 10 or 11 seconds that others take to make extra pitstops. Also, in case of rain, people didn't worry much. I remmeber Baricchello won in brazil 3 years ago ( if im not mistaken the year ). it started raining the last 10 laps or so but he never went in the pit. he stood out because he had a 10 second lead due to his pitstop strategy. he had only 1 in mind. While others made two, or three, baricchelo stood out with dry tires and finished hsi risky buisness. Nowadays, its luck that makes or breaks teams. If say someone just skids a little bit or locks a little bit, you can bet he is out of the race like kimi raikkonen this year. he entered a turn a litttle too fast and locked front right tire a bit. He had a flat on there and the vibration of the flat spot on the tire caused him to break the axel almost kiling him if it wasnt for the regulatio rope in place. he could not change the tire that was basically not making any contact with the ground, just jumping around. So this sucks badly...

Anyway, I cannot watch anything. USA offers very little of any at all about racing/street racing/car shows. They have this Street fury, on G4TV but its only for babes that are paid to go on car shows, and ricers with one or two true racers a month.

being an aussie i hope mark webber improves with whatever williams use in 2006, i thought at one point they were going to use toyotas

Nothing. Progress may move on lubricant oil but progress and civilization are not equals. Civilization does not depend on mechanical engineers. They precisely choose that vocation because they are not capable of processing words -or ideas- bigger than three syllables.
Enjoy toiling in the fields Socrates, I will ride on the industrial revolution.
By the way, Car-bur-re-tor.

Irrespective of the DFV, perhaps you're all forgetting that Cosworth supplies the 750hp/800hp-(under "push to pass"), 2.65L spec V8 to the Champ Car Series. This engine is very similar in displacement and output to what F1 will require beginning in '06, (though they are turbocharged). Also, these engines have been required to last 2 race weekends for 3 years now, whereas the other F1 teams only have 1 year experience with this concept. This motor, not the DFV, is why Cosworth will shine in '06 and beyond.
Riding the turbocharger to victory is all well and good but alot less money goes in to Champ cars meaning the engine will be developed only for a certain turbocharger at high boost, not a highly developed N/A F1 engine.

Riding the turbocharger to victory is all well and good but alot less money goes in to Champ cars meaning the engine will be developed only for a certain turbocharger at high boost, not a highly developed N/A F1 engine.

that is true! they spend a lot of hours developing the F1 engines at the start of each season just to keep up with the changing regulations and restrictions.

Everyone has experiance with V8's....Ferrari's use it for the GT cars, Honda use it for Indy cars or Champ(w/e), Toyota too. M-B Uses it in the GT cars too i beleave.

http://www.cosworth.com/downloads/cosworthV8_movie5_medium.mpg?PHPSESSID=2 5b496b5332e978761f20ddbc95a35dc there you have the new Cosworth new V8 engine running up to 20.000 rpm.