While the debate of American vs whatever has been raging on for a while, I still have to see some solid comparisons. So, I've taken the time to look up a good number of important numbers for 2003-2004 cars from Dodge, Pontiac, Chevy, and Ford to match them up against cars in the same class. This first one is of Compact cars. They range from 15-23 thousand dollars and all have I-4 engines. Notice I did not include the Subaru WRX STi, Mitsubishi Evo VIII nor the Dodge SRT-4. These cars are in a class all thier own and it would be unfair to include them. I don't know where Agitadedcorn got the 1/4-mile times for his uber comparison, and I don't think they would be incredibly reliable anyway. So, this is the reason people would dare to say that Japan is 'ahead' of America. I hope this comparo makes that point very clear to everyone. Keep in mind how bare bones the American cars are and to be comprably equipped with the base Japanese cars would add some more dough. Yet another reason Japan is 'ahead' of America. When owener expense is factored in, the higher priced competition is average to better than average while the American cars at best are average and more often go below average in quality. More ammo for my point.

The Yanks
2004 Pontiac Sunfire
-$15,495
-2.2-liter I-4
-140hp 150 lb-ft of torque
-2,771 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-26/31 mpg

2004 Chevrolet Cavalier Coupe
-$15,210
-2,2-liter I-4
-140hp 150 lb-ft of torque
-2,617 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-26/37 mpg

2004 Dodge Neon R/T
-$17,895
-2.0-liter I-4
-150hp 135 lb-ft of torque
-2,712 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-29/36 mpg

2004 Ford Focus SVT
-$19,135
-2.0-liter I-4
-170hp 145 lb-ft of torque
-2,593 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-21/28 mpg

The Island Imports
2004 Honda Civic Si
-$19,070
-2.0-liter I-4
-160hp 132 lb-ft of torque
-2,782 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-26/31 mpg

2004 Acura RSX Type-S
-$23, 320(mind you, this includes leather seats baby!!!)
-2.0-liter I-4
-200hp 142lb-ft of torque
-2,767 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-24/31 mpg

2004 Toyota Celica GT-S
-$22,570
-1.8-liter I-4
-180hp 130lb-ft of torque
-2,500 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-24/33 mpg

2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
-$17,997
-2.4-liter I-4
-162hp 162 lb-ft of torque
-2,843 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-23/29 mpg

2004 Mazda 3s
-$16,925
-2.3-liter I-4
-160hp 150lb-ft of torque
-2,762 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-25/32 mpg

2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protégé
-$21,000
-2.0-liter Turbocharged I-4
-170hp 160lb-ft of torque
-2,843 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-24/30 mpg

These little compacts are the only cars Japan makes that are def better then there American counterparts. But the new Cavalier (which will have a new name) is supossed to be really good. The difference if these cars are core cars in Japan, the average American uses these cars as 2nd or 3rd cars so they don't really care about them lol.

The Japanese cars are better but you still voted for American? Is that what you said? The cars don't matter? Wow! you'll like part 2 then i bet :-p

The Japanese cars are better but you still voted for American? Is that what you said? The cars don't matter? Wow! you'll like part 2 then i bet :-p


I actaully didn't vote yet....

oh, I'm sorry. There was one vote already and you were the onlyone who had replied. My apologies! :oops:

I personally hate the entire sport compact thing, so I didn't vote. The only ones I like are the Subaru WRX STi and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. They're much more expensive than the ones you mentioned though. Their also very different and much better, as you mentioned.

I personally hate the entire sport compact thing, so I didn't vote. The only ones I like are the Subaru WRX STi and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. They're much more expensive than the ones you mentioned though. Their also very different and much better, as you mentioned.

I agree....100%

I'm also not big into this group but the only one I really like is the RSX Type S and for the yanks the only one I would buy would be the SVT Focus.

:lol: okay, fine, you don't like less expensive cars. but why isn't anyone saying anything about my other poll yet? am I too right? :lol:

:lol: okay, fine, you don't like less expensive cars. but why isn't anyone saying anything about my other poll yet? am I too right? :lol:


its not that i dont like inexpensive cars, i just dislike sport compacts.

What about the SRT4 or Ion Redline or whatever.

If they'd make this crap not front wheel drive I would actually consider buying it!

oh wow, sorry, I really did totally forget about the Ion Redline. *sigh* okay, these are FWD because they are much les expensive to make, therefor less expensive to the consumer and a GREAT deal more fuel effecient which educated people know is a good thing and it's a smart economic move to get a more fuel efficient car, saves you $$$ in the long run. Companies have taken advantage of FWD cars and juiced them up to attract youthful buyers with not a lot of money but who still want something fatster than their grandmas Oldsmobuick.

I'll edit and add in the Ion Redline when I get all the umbers. But you see how hopeless the American offerings are without that 'ace in the hole' SRT-4 which is a sub $29k car. Too bad it's not very original in terms of ripping off the Evo's powerplant. I actually like the styling and wouldn't mind having one if it didn't break too often.

These cars are "compacts"??? :?
Anyway, I choose japanese.

Freak, I dunno, I'm not a car editor! Hehe, they are the smallest that the respective companies offer, so thats what I went off of. Sue me! :lol:

Whoever voted for the American line-up needs kicked in the face or at least explain his tainted logic :mrgreen:

Whoever voted for the American line-up needs kicked in the face or at least explain his tainted logic :mrgreen:

O so only what you like is good? I am from Germany and i HATE all this sport compact rice crap. Everytime I go to America or Japan all these stupid cars have coffee can exhaust that sounds horrible with 50 million stupid stickers....The American versions are just transportation....thus I prefer them.....thats my opinion.....all the Jap cars are turned into or already are rice rockets and its so annoying.......

??? i never impled that "only what I like is good". I'm saying the Japanese cars are better values, higher quality, better built, and I personally like their stylinga lot. Just because you allow 'ricers' to annoy you so freely you dislike the cars they are based on? All of the sudden 'just transportation' makes a good car? I don't buy that for one second.

What does FWD have to do with fuel efficiency? lol

And who cares if the SRT has the EVO turbo.. ITS SOME GENERIC turbo so who cares. Now I suppose you are going to say you don't like the Maserati cause it has a Ferarri engine?

Yeah, both Maserati and Ferrari are both Italinan car companies and closely related. Dodge and Mitsubishi aren't. dodge needed to develope its own turbo, IMO and not borrow from Mitsu, that's all. Anyway, didn't I already say that I liked the SRT-4? Read all the posts before you try to talk smack.

Yeah, both Maserati and Ferrari are both Italinan car companies and closely related. Dodge and Mitsubishi aren't. dodge needed to develope its own turbo, IMO and not borrow from Mitsu, that's all. Anyway, didn't I already say that I liked the SRT-4? Read all the posts before you try to talk smack.

Ferrari has owned Maserati since 1997.

But back to the topic here....Mitsubishi makes turbochargers for lots
of other car companies. Hell Hitachi made the ones
on the Supra Turbo lol.

WHO CARES?? I'D GO FOR THE 2003 FORD MUSTANG GT :lol:

alot of people should care because they don't have that much money for a car. this is coming from a guy with a Focus ZX3 Avatar? Wow, don't even speak if you don't have anything intelligent to say. This is comparison of smaller FWD cars under $24k, get with the program.

i'd like to go w/ an RSX type-S, or a celica GT-S, but i sort of feel guilty for choosing the more expensive ones :oops: so, if i had to buy it myself (and keep it for a long time...) i'd take the civic Si (they should've kept the old coupe :( :( :( :( )

the focus ZX3 looks kind of appealing, but i might not exactly trust it for reliability

the sport compacts are simply your basic coupe, w/ a little more power, jsut think of it as that..... :)

Also (at least with the Japanese ones) there is a good potential for performance because of thier smaller sizes and higher quality engineering. Just think of how much better the JDM spec cars are as well and it really isn't a contest anymore :lol: when Honda decides to ship the civic Type-R, that will be a GREAT replacement for the current Si.

The Civic Si you have there is like a Lada compared to the Type-R, trust me on this. The Type-R is like centuries ahead on everything. (compared to the Si)

I know! if you put a Civic Si next to the Type-R, you'd only really see any resemblance in the freaking headlights(whcih I love!) The suspension is better, your getting at least like 25% more power, the wheels/tires are bigger and have more grip, and the aerokit is freakin' sweet. Why does it have to be so cool!? All America will get, I think, is the Si with the HFP package, which is kinda like the type-R aerokit/wheels/suspension, but not the same power. No worry, I'll just have a Skunk2 job done on it and get at least 250 hp N/A if I choose to keep it like that. I'd be mighty tempted to go forced incution. *drooool* :lol:

lol raith...
but i would look at what us 'young' people are getting today: used cars...
wheres some supras and rx7s in that list...also some old skool stangs and maros...
they're all good...and discounted :D :D :D

Yeah, for the 40k I'd be spending on my way better than average Civic Si, that same amount of money would get me a much faster Supra, GTi, RX-7, S4, or a really sick CL Type-S. :mrgreen:

what are you talkin about raith :?: :?: :?:
i go on autotrader once in a while and find these 22k supras and 12k sevens all the time :shock:

What I meant was getting those cars and tuning them, of course. Do you think the Si costs $40k? or that the HFP package costs $20k? Well, I didn't really state what I meant very well, I suppose. Like $25k for the car with the HFP option and then $15k on mods and tuning. For that same $40k, I'd get a used Supra or whatever and tune it out as well, and they'd be alot faster than the Si. Did I do it right that time? :mrgreen:

Japanese rice cars suck----American muscle all the way!!!!!! :x

Japanese rice cars suck----American muscle all the way!!!!!! :x

Wow Bob, that's a very ignorant statement. :?

American cars have the V-8 muscle but when it comes to the high revving 4 cylinder sport compacts, the Acura RSX Type-S is my choice. It is very quick and it has great handling, the Civic Type-R is good too. American cars just dont have what it takes for the sport compact market. Sure they have cars for that market, but they just arent that good. IMO of course. I personally dont like any of the sport compact thing anyway, I would rather have myself and M5 or an Audi RS-6. Now those are cars for you!!

Even though I am an American Car fanatic, I still believe that the Japanese are leading in sport compact. :)

Even though I am an American Car fanatic, I still believe that the Japanese are leading in sport compact. :)

That says it all :)

well it is true

I've never been a fan of sport compact though :roll: so I'd only get one for conservation as a winter vehicle or something :wink: I'd never get one to "supe up" or anything unless I had a lot of money and planned to make a sleeper with none of the original parts :lol: 8) so... ya I guess that's all I have to say about that. I STILL prefer American cars, but Japan seems to lead whenever it comes to making things smaller (they kind of need it for the roads and such it is pretty dense there)

I choose Japanesse

personally, i think the SVT blows the crap out of all of the cars except the RSX. That things in a class of it's own. Maybe a more fair comparison would be a regular RSX? Anyway, the SVT focus blows them away in build quality and handling. The only thing that really has a chance is the Mazdaspeed protege. But still, the SRT-4 (escpecilly with the stage 1 upgrade!) just blows them out of the water in everything except build quality.

personally, i think the SVT blows the crap out of all of the cars except the RSX. That things in a class of it's own. Maybe a more fair comparison would be a regular RSX? Anyway, the SVT focus blows them away in build quality and handling. The only thing that really has a chance is the Mazdaspeed protege. But still, the SRT-4 (escpecilly with the stage 1 upgrade!) just blows them out of the water in everything except build quality.

new scion tC is NICE :D

The Yanks
2004 Ford Focus SVT
-$19,135
-2.0-liter I-4
-170hp 145 lb-ft of torque
-2,593 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-21/28 mpg

The Island Imports
2004 Honda Civic Si
-$19,070
-2.0-liter I-4
-160hp 132 lb-ft of torque
-2,782 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-26/31 mpg

2004 Acura RSX Type-S
-$23, 320(mind you, this includes leather seats baby!!!)
-2.0-liter I-4
-200hp 142lb-ft of torque
-2,767 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-24/31 mpg

2004 Toyota Celica GT-S
-$22,570
-1.8-liter I-4
-180hp 130lb-ft of torque
-2,500 lbs.
-6-speed manual
-24/33 mpg

2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
-$17,997
-2.4-liter I-4
-162hp 162 lb-ft of torque
-2,843 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-23/29 mpg

2004 Mazda 3s
-$16,925
-2.3-liter I-4
-160hp 150lb-ft of torque
-2,762 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-25/32 mpg

2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protégé
-$21,000
-2.0-liter Turbocharged I-4
-170hp 160lb-ft of torque
-2,843 lbs.
-5-speed manual
-24/30 mpg

The SVT Focus is cheaper than 3 of those cars, is lighter than 5 of those cars, has more horsepower than 3 of those cars, has more torque than 3 of those cars.

Yeah, the SVT Focus is really awesome, but this is a comparison of the respective nations 'entire' offerings. I'll agree, I'm a "quality over quantity" kinda guy, but I wanted to show how many excellent compacts there were from Japan opposed to the one or two from America, albeit better than some of the imports. Then again, you hafta think how "American" the Focus really is. You think the average U.S. consumer buys it because of the the technology displayed in the WRC Focus? No, if that were true, there'd be alot more demand for the RS that's only in Eurpoe, where Rally racing is a great deal more popluar. *sigh* Oh RS, I pine for thee :lol:

The SVT Focus is cheaper than 3 of those cars, is lighter than 5 of those cars, has more horsepower than 3 of those cars, has more torque than 3 of those cars.
Just to dispel your joy, the Focus was designed, engineered and tested in Germany and by German engineers and mechanics, under surveillance by Ford Europe Co., which is almost independent from American Ford Co..
The Focus' destined for Europe are also built in Germany.
Do you still believe it is an American car?

The SVT Focus is cheaper than 3 of those cars, is lighter than 5 of those cars, has more horsepower than 3 of those cars, has more torque than 3 of those cars.
Just to dispel your joy, the Focus was designed, engineered and tested in Germany and by German engineers and mechanics, under surveillance by Ford Europe Co., which is almost independent from American Ford Co..
The Focus' destined for Europe are also built in Germany.
Do you still believe it is an American car?

Well if you want t go that route do you know how many Jap cars are designed and built in the USA? ALOT!

No no no, the Jap cars that we Europeans get are made in Japan, and sometimes in the UK. But not in the US. :lol:

But the ones that we get in the US are almost entirely built in the US.

Yeah, cause it would cost much more to build them in Japan and then ship them to the american continent.

Why is it important where it's built. It should be a question of who desings it, that will determine the cars origins. I can build a Civic Type-R in Great Britan, but that obviously doesn't make it a European car. Good greif. I could have a team of Honda engineers working in the US and when they make a concept for a new Prelude, is that an American car too? I highly doubt anyone would think that :P

I agree, that's why I posted the stuff about the focus. :wink:

I HATE Ford Focus'... I'd rather get an SRT-4 as a compact. IMO that is the best sport compact out right now... unless u inlclude the imprezas and evos which I'm not sure if they classify as sport compact or not... anyone?

shipping cars from japan to the US probably isn't that expensive, a lot of american cars are made in mexico and brazil..

I HATE Ford Focus'... I'd rather get an SRT-4 as a compact.
I though the SRT-4 was quite larger than the Focus'??
I mean they're not quite in the same category.

I HATE Ford Focus'... I'd rather get an SRT-4 as a compact.
I though the SRT-4 was quite larger than the Focus'??
I mean they're not quite in the same category.

actually the SRT-4 is smaller (high-end Neon duh...)

Smaller???????????????????? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
What is the lenght of the Neon and what is the lenght of the Focus hatchback??

actually the SRT-4 is smaller (high-end Neon duh...) lol :lol: Not to me, its just another car made by Dodge :D

The Neon and 4 door Focus are close, but I think the Neon is a LITTLE bigger.

Focus vs. Neon?? :roll: Can we move on to better overall cars?

the japanese have been in this field longer, so i lean towards them a little more, and trust them too

Focus vs. Neon?? :roll: Can we move on to better overall cars?


If you don't want to be involved in the topic.....its simple...
don't read it or post in it...:roll:

Focus vs. Neon?? :roll: Can we move on to better overall cars? We are talking about Japs vs. American here. Stay on subject here people.

The Neon and 4 door Focus are close, but I think the Neon is a LITTLE bigger.

what about height? and weight?

back to the subject at hand... japan has been in the compact market forever. that's what happens when a hundred billion people are shoved on a tiny island to live. their cars become tiny. and in america - all this open space. the US is not used to making as many compacts as japan.

and about the "where it's built" thing. i'm still understanding that most japanese sport compacts are built in japan??? my car's vin number's got the J up in front, as does a whole slew of other japanese compacts.

and the cost to ship to america thing... there's tariffs. that's what makes them more expensive. i noticed the japanese cars on that list are quite a few bucks more than the american cars. this is because the import tariffs, so we're actually getting slightly ripped off every time we buy a car made in japan. :wink: but it doesn't bother me... my brand loyalty for any japanese car is always gonna influence me to buy them, regardless of some $3000 import tax.

back to the subject at hand... japan has been in the compact market forever. that's what happens when a hundred billion people are shoved on a tiny island to live. their cars become tiny. and in america - all this open space. the US is not used to making as many compacts as japan.
Thanks man, I've been trying to explain this for many months now...

Some people just refuse to listen and never explore any other view points with a turely open mind, which I feel is utterly essential for being a true car enthusiest.

Some people just refuse to listen and never explore any other view points with a turely open mind, which I feel is utterly essential for being a true car enthusiest.

I agree...

No no no, the Jap cars that we Europeans get are made in Japan, and sometimes in the UK. But not in the US. :lol:

Actually, if you get a Toyota Camry/Avalon/Pronard, 60% chance its built in the US. If you get/got a Camry Wagon, definitely built in the US.

Pretty soon, Nissans built on the VQ platform (Altima/Maxima/350Z) for the world will be built not only in Japan, but also in Alabama.

A-Spec Ford Focus' are built in Mexico.

There are no Camrys/Avalons/Pronards/Altimas in Europe.
And all Focus' we get are built in Germany.

Japanse Compacts are better then the American ones
Japanese always builded small cars, and americans always had big cars

i don't know but Ford is from France and not from America!

I think Japan make the best small cars in this world!

Sarina.

Look, the european is ( for as far as i know ) a part of the American Ford
but I dont believe the Focus is build in Germany, its in France i think

Um... Ford is American, but now there's an independent European division. The Focus is built in Germany. Their new cars could be considered German.

If its an A-spec (North or South American) Ford Focus, its built in Mexico. The outgoing Focus SVT is imported from Europe.

Camry is sold in UK, Netherlands, Sweden,and Russia (and maybe some others).

Didn't check on the Altima, but Nissan/Renault is using that platform universally for their midsize cars and vans.

i like the neon , mondeo , neon, etc but i like the japanese civic , imprezo , accord
quite confused but i would go for american as i hate the camry,sunny,and the rest

the american cars hav better acceleration, better saftey options, cheaper as in cost(atleast in my country)

the american cars hav better acceleration, better saftey options, cheaper as in cost(atleast in my country)

Not all american cars have better acceleration than Japenese cars, and there are cheaper japenese cars in our country anyways.

maybe some might hav better acceleration but the cost facter is tat low the cost of a japanese car is when they r 1.3 ltr or 1.6ltr & standard version

wait, are you guys even LOOKING at the cars listed in the comparison?

2004 Mitsubishi with only 162Hp i didnt realise they made them with less than 280 but then again they might do on the American auto market but i know the bottom of the range in the UK comes with 280 Hp but any way i vote for the Jap compacts :)

While I think that the forein cars have far more aftermarket parts,and a bigger following, I also believe the Toyota/Honda/Mitsu fad to be started by American engines......

The Quad 4 came out in the mid 80's, and was one of the first DOHC engines to gain notoriety.....
The first american car to get a DOHC 16 valve 4/cyl was in the 70's...... the Chevy Vega.

The way I see it, America gave birth to the HO in line 4/cyl craze, then the forein car companies really ran with it.

The fastest 4cyl right now is a GM sunfire...... 7 second 1/4 mile times, and is powered be a Turbocharged 2.2 Ectoech.....

SInce we're all talking about a comparison of what japan is good at, let's throw in something America has had practice at. Who makes the best sports cars? I can't really think of any good ones Japan has, but a bunch the American's have. I have an 87 firebird and with about 5g in mods I can out handle most of these sport compacts and deffinately beat them in a race. That's one for the Americans.

i think japan has better sports cars. Shall i list them? NSX, RSX, Skyline, Supra, 350z, Rx-8, RX-7, Evolution series, 3000GT series, MR2, Type R series, Silvia, etc. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I think those qualify as sports cars. Now, if you said pony cars or muscle cars, then japan would be sunk, and i would agree.

i love American cars and altough the Neon is a great car, American compacts can't compare with the Japanese they're just too reliable

stallion8797
SInce we're all talking about a comparison of what japan is good at, let's throw in something America has had practice at. Who makes the best sports cars? I can't really think of any good ones Japan has, but a bunch the American's have. I have an 87 firebird and with about 5g in mods I can out handle most of these sport compacts and deffinately beat them in a race. That's one for the Americans.
Your statement is faulty for several reasons, stallion, and I am not including your grammatical skills. For one, you did not throw in any examples of any concrete American sports car comparisons. Secondly, you did not think at all of any Japanese sports cars. Thirdly, you have an 87 firebird, very cheap now, thus making it easier for upgrading, which includes 5 grand as you said. Note number four, you never specified whether or not the Japanese cars you can out handle and race were upgraded or not, in conclusion, I am assuming that you did not know much about the cars you raced, which further brings me to the point is that you probably raced "style cars" or cheaply modified sports compacts, or I would even go as far as to say you raced STOCK SCs (shame on you). I am sorry, but your statements are unintelligible. Of course your car can beat most sports compacts! Because there are sports compact cars that cannot be compared to other sports compact cars!! So in the same logic, there are many Japanese SC cars that can beat American cars such as your 87 Firebird. My uncle had an 88 firebird (160-180 hp from what he remembers) and now has an RSX-s (200 hp). The firebirds topped out at 120mph due to the limiter; because the aluminum cylinder heads were so light that at faster speeds it would become loggish and destroy the engine, whereas the type S tops out at 150mph with limiter. I am aware that I am comparing an 87 to an 03, and the technology is years in advance, but the facts are at comparable specs, the Japanese cars do much better. :wink:

-- Mopar68Moderator
i think japan has better sports cars. Shall i list them? NSX, RSX, Skyline, Supra, 350z, Rx-8, RX-7, Evolution series, 3000GT series, MR2, Type R series, Silvia, etc. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I think those qualify as sports cars. Now, if you said pony cars or muscle cars, then japan would be sunk, and i would agree.
_________________
Street racing is like kissing your sister. It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry Mopar, but with the NSX, Skyline, Supra, 350z, 3000gt, etc. they are all over the price quota of the topic string not to mention performance compatibility. :shock: Perhaps the string was not read all the way through, but I understand where why you posted those cars; captian information, stallion, was very descriptive and informational. Some may be labeled in darker red colors because maybe now they are cheaper because of age, but in class they are not on topic. As for the RXs; Mazda makes them and Mazda is American. But I do agree with you all the way when it comes to some of the select few muscle cars that are in a league of their own. On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs and lose at only .1 - .3 of a second in performance ( I went car shopping with my sister and checked some of the stuff out). As for your quote about Street racing; who the heck thought that lame thing up? If you know, I would like to whip that smacktard because if it were not for street racing, there would not be circuit racing such as Nascar.

On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs

Thats a good one, is it April Fools already? :-)

On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs

Thats a good one, is it April Fools already? :-)

:lol: 2 days, gotta remember; RSX-S is a sporty econobox, while the GT is a muscle car... :roll:

On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs

Thats a good one, is it April Fools already? :-)

:lol: 2 days, gotta remember; RSX-S is a sporty econobox, while the GT is a muscle car... :roll:

So? He compared them not me.........

no, i meant to say; they're very, very different cars; and that wasn't directed at you blucam, just quoted you for your april fools part :wink: :P

On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs

Thats a good one, is it April Fools already? :-)

Nope, and your joke convicted no facts, just derogitory because you have some kind of beef with me. I can say you do, because you never agree with me on anything, and if you do, you will not confirm it, only ridicule the things I say to make yourself feel like you have the 'upper hand'. I am sorry, but just because you are a moderator, does not mean you deserve respect. If you want to act like a child, do not be a moderator. And secondly, I did the research on mustang GTs vs RSX-s and the RSX only loses to a few tenths of a second :lol: . Go do some research before you decide to knock on someone elses facts, bro. I do not know what you are trying to stab at with that joke, not to mention it was a horrible cliche.

And as for the car comparisons, I already acknowleged that these cars are very different, but it is pretty insulting when a sports compact can pretty much keep up with a 'muscle car'. Perhaps next time I can spare you guys a few sparking brain cells and just spell it all out for you.

go to car-stats.com they've been up for years and do verified statistics. check them out. oh and they have pretty graphs to help you better understand if you have a sort of disability when it comes to reading :lol: :lol: :lol:

On the other hand, RSX-s can keep up with Stang GTs

Thats a good one, is it April Fools already? :-)

Nope, and your joke convicted no facts, just derogitory because you have some kind of beef with me. I can say you do, because you never agree with me on anything, and if you do, you will not confirm it, only ridicule the things I say to make yourself feel like you have the 'upper hand'. I am sorry, but just because you are a moderator, does not mean you deserve respect. If you want to act like a child, do not be a moderator. And secondly, I did the research on mustang GTs vs RSX-s and the RSX only loses to a few tenths of a second :lol: . Go do some research before you decide to knock on someone elses facts, bro. I do not know what you are trying to stab at with that joke, not to mention it was a horrible cliche.

And as for the car comparisons, I already acknowleged that these cars are very different, but it is pretty insulting when a sports compact can pretty much keep up with a 'muscle car'. Perhaps next time I can spare you guys a few sparking brain cells and just spell it all out for you.

go to car-stats.com they've been up for years and do verified statistics. check them out. oh and they have pretty graphs to help you better understand if you have a sort of disability when it comes to reading :lol: :lol: :lol:

The reason I disagree with you is because you are wrong....and others agree with me.
I did check the times, and a few tenths is ALOT, any true car guy knows that. And look at the facts dude, as speed bulids the Mustang pulls away easily. Stop whinning that I disagree with you too, its a message board for petes sake.

depends on the year :lol: for 'pete's sake'. plus i'd like to know where you got your facts, if i may have them. and it's not whining, it is called decisive argumentation. check out the 2002 car-stats *surprise*. perhaps if gave you a detailed year, you would get off my @$$ a little bit. And true car guy? Are you saying there are no car girls? you are one seriously biased man. i've read a lot of your posts and you are biased against japanese cars, so why should anything you say be taken into consideration? At least i acknowlege the muscle cars superiority, but i also note that japanese cars aren't too far behind. So if you are really paying attention to what I am saying, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about those cars. True car guys, if there is such a thing, dont sit on forums everyday holding their yanks arguing. i havent been here in months because i do get around and look at these cars. And it is NOT ALOT faster a 'few tenths' doesnt mean too much seeing that its a muscle car against a sports compact. Pulls away easily??? Where are you getting this from? by reading the HP and Torque?

here is where the critical reading skills come in, i said pretty much, and i gave time differences. so how am i wrong? i am not. i am not being biased and i never said which car was better.
and 'Pulls away easily??? Where are you getting this from? by reading the HP and Torque?' this means where did you get the info from? okay? :roll:
I guess these comparisons also has to deal with what we are specifically comparing too, but now i am just wasting my time.

Now I am going to spare you any more greif; i am going back on the poll seen above. I agree that for the price, japanese sports compact cars offer more than american compact simply because of overall power and gas mileage.
Here is easy terms, which we mostly call laymans terms (highlighted in yellow):
i think japan has better sports cars. Shall i list them? NSX, RSX, Skyline, Supra, 350z, Rx-8, RX-7, Evolution series, 3000GT series, MR2, Type R series, Silvia, etc. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I think those qualify as sports cars. Now, if you said pony cars or muscle cars, then japan would be sunk, and i would agree. I 100% agree with you there, except I think perhaps I was a little more descriptive with my reasoning.

depends on the year :lol: for 'pete's sake'. plus i'd like to know where you got your facts, if i may have them. and it's not whining, it is called decisive argumentation. check out the 2002 car-stats *surprise*. perhaps if gave you a detailed year, you would get off my @$$ a little bit. And true car guy? Are you saying there are no car girls? you are one seriously biased man. i've read a lot of your posts and you are biased against japanese cars, so why should anything you say be taken into consideration? At least i acknowlege the muscle cars superiority, but i also note that japanese cars aren't too far behind. So if you are really paying attention to what I am saying, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about those cars. True car guys, if there is such a thing, dont sit on forums everyday holding their yanks arguing. i havent been here in months because i do get around and look at these cars. And it is NOT ALOT faster a 'few tenths' doesnt mean too much seeing that its a muscle car against a sports compact. Pulls away easily??? Where are you getting this from? by reading the HP and Torque?

here is where the critical reading skills come in, i said pretty much, and i gave time differences. so how am i wrong? i am not. i am not being biased and i never said which car was better.
and 'Pulls away easily??? Where are you getting this from? by reading the HP and Torque?' this means where did you get the info from? okay? :roll:
I guess these comparisons also has to deal with what we are specifically comparing too, but now i am just wasting my time.

Now I am going to spare you any more greif; i am going back on the poll seen above. I agree that for the price, japanese sports compact cars offer more than american compact simply because of overall power and gas mileage.
Here is easy terms, which we mostly call laymans terms (highlighted in yellow):
i think japan has better sports cars. Shall i list them? NSX, RSX, Skyline, Supra, 350z, Rx-8, RX-7, Evolution series, 3000GT series, MR2, Type R series, Silvia, etc. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I think those qualify as sports cars. Now, if you said pony cars or muscle cars, then japan would be sunk, and i would agree. I 100% agree with you there, except I think perhaps I was a little more descriptive with my reasoning.

You see unlike a bench racer like you I spend my time at the track, I drag race and autoX. So I SEE these cars going against each other. The RSX gets hammered buy a new Mustang. And as the speed grows so does the difference. You just can't bare to understand that, like most who are biased towards Asian cars. And you said you read my posts? Well I guess you have selective sight then, because to say I am biased against Asian cars is a joke, I OWN A Infiniti.....so before you make false comments get your facts straight.....

1. My comment i know was very off topic. I know that the NSX, skyline, etc. are not compacts. But this was in response to stallion 8797's post stating "Who makes the best sports cars? I can't really think of any good ones Japan has, but a bunch the American's have". Now ami dreaming, or did he say SPORTS CARS. So, my off topic response was a relatiation to another off topic response. Thats all.

2. The fact that blucam said car guy was no sexist or biased. It's just a term used for a car savvy person. Should he have said "car-person"? Also, it's his god given right to be biased against japanese cars. I'm sure he has his reasons for it.

3. "street racing is like kissing your sister, it just doesn't make any sense" is from the show, sports car revolution. And it's true. Street racing is extremely dangerous and illegal. Why risk your neck on the street when you could very easilly go to a dragstrip or compete in the local autocross events? You can argue with that. I'm sorry, but i don't live in a 2 fast 2 furious world like you MIGHT.

Furthermore, this topic is about COMPACTS.....Any further discussion on cars not fitting the topic will be deleted...... :-)

I *heart* TheCivicProject :lol:
seriosuly, 'smacktard' is the best new funny insult I've heard in years. And he stands up for himself! Oooh, watch out suckas. A few tenths of a second doesn't really count IMO. As a person who has RESPONSIBILITIES, is not an executive tychoon, and haven't inherited a dead relatives fortune, Sport Compacts have all the SPEED you need. Technology has allowed engines to become insanely smaller, more efficient, and have outputs that are unimaginable to the large displacement Muscle Cars of yesteryear. A leetle N/A 2.0 or 2.4-liter I-4 can pull you to 60 mph in like 7 seconds and the car that it's in is going to be light, agile, repsonsive, and not drink fuel like a fish. Yeah, sorry to bring mpg into the picture, but I work for my money, can only afford one car for daily driving, and hell, gas is getting damned expensive. Why lower your chances of survival by having a relatively small car with only two seats, a monster engine, and a poorly constructed chassied car that can go 1/4 mile in under 10 seconds. Why? Does it matter when you die? No. So if you like speed, there's so many options its crazy. But my advice is get a SC from the guys that ahve been doign right for a long time with unbeatable quality and reliability. I just wanna beat idiots in SUV's, Turcks, and the craptastic V-6 Stangs that make more noise than power. And believe me, there are ALOT of each of these tearing around the roads thinking they have a "Muscle Car". I hate it when dealers try to sell people trucks by telling them that they're the "new hot rods". >_<

yeah i have to agree with you there. Infact, i agree with eveything said. But i still think a big ol V-8 sounds better than an I-4. Of course, this is no reason to own a cheaply made, inefficent sled over a well made and light four cylinder car.

BTW sorry for the previous post, i just felt like i needed to clear everything up.

As for the RXs; Mazda makes them and Mazda is American.
Noone seems to have seen that... I knew that the media in the US are biased but I never knew they could go this far. :lol:
Mazda is a Japanese company man...

one-third of mazda is controlled by ford; the V6 in the mazda 6 is a taurus engine; the tribute, and the navajo are fords

other than those 3, all mazda's have japanese engines in them

Furthermore, this topic is about COMPACTS.....

yeah, so no more mustang; a car with a V8 that weighs 3300 lbs + and gets 17 city/25 highway MPG is not a compact, so dont' compare an compact to a muscle car, something more like compact vs. compact as the topic suggests

This is why I rarely post anymore. This forum is full of ignorant , uninformed people who make assessments based on magazines, and car movies (not good ones either, you know the type). Its sad because I like all cars but yet again there is an extreme bias here. #1 What bluecam said was entirely true. Dependant upon speed even a tenth can equal a full car length on the track. Im not even going to get into the handling issue because most of you think light always equals better handling, and then on top of that the general consensus is that domestic cars are all heavy and handle like poop. Well even a 90 mustang 5.0 GT will annihilate and thoroughly emberass a civic, integra (not a type R though),Del Sol, Accord, and numerous other non-honda japanese cars in the corners. Here's something that you should do if you truly want to be informed. Put DOWN the magazine. Drop the bag of doritos. Turn OFF the computer (some of you might even be confused how). Hop down to your local track. I dont care whether its your local dragstrip or some scca course. Then form opinions. Start working on your own cars. Dont know how? Find a damn lawnmower engine, like a briggs and stratton and start there. Stop being so ignorant. Go get enlightened. Or sit there, stare at the monitor, pick up a car & dumbass magazine, and use your calculator to figure out how many cup holders roll off the assembly line per year at the chrysler plant.

Ok, well my definition of a sports car is apparently a lot different then everyone else's. I would consider the NSX to be a super car and the supra, skyline, and the such to be sports cars. And we don't even get a skyline here so that doesn't count.

Anyway i'll speak about what I know...

TheCivicProject wrote:

The firebirds topped out at 120mph due to the limiter; because the aluminum cylinder heads were so light that at faster speeds it would become loggish and destroy the engine, whereas the type S tops out at 150mph with limiter. I am aware that I am comparing an 87 to an 03, and the technology is years in advance, but the facts are at comparable specs, the Japanese cars do much better.
The firebirds topped out at 120mph due to the limiter; because the aluminum cylinder heads were so light that at faster speeds it would become loggish and destroy the engine, whereas the type S tops out at 150mph with limiter. I am aware that I am comparing an 87 to an 03, and the technology is years in advance, but the facts are at comparable specs, the Japanese cars do much better.

Now I don't know what type of firebird you are talking about here but in 87 there were no aluminum factory heads for that car. If it had any less the 200hp it was a 305 and they all had the iron ones and a top speed is not determined by how the heads hold up. Going too fast will not break them and destroy the engine, you will bend a valve or spin a bearing before that. As far as the comparison of the RSX that doesn't show anything. It has more hp and is lighter so naturally it will have a higher top speed. Just for the record look at some of the fastest production body cars and you will see that a 355 powered 89 firebird holds a top position. Where as the civic hasn't even come close.