So i heard that using a car with lot's of horses on the fw can destroy your clutch! I also know that it's the same using a 4wd (if i'm worng please correct me) or is it worse? If the car is rw can the stock clutch take way more horsepower or it's the same story as the fwd and the 4wd! AND after you upgrade the car with a double clutch, is there any chance to burn it aswell? Or it can take all the horsepower you throw in it? ?!? :?: :?:

Tell me your opinions or correct me with your experience!!!

Whenever you upgrade your engine, you also need a stronger clutch! That is a rule, no matter the transmission!

Whenever you upgrade your engine, you also need a stronger clutch! That is a rule, no matter the transmission!

sure he needs a stronger clutch but the question was about the double clutch .

ok i hope i will explain my self good but here's the explenation :
double clutch was used in old cars so that they won't destroy the engine while shifting gear , so that the rpm would not jump too high and destroy the engine in new cars they have a device that does that ( i know the name in hebrew but not in english sorry guys) .

only real heavy racers does it couse its hard to do , double clutch means you push the cluch and go to N and and then leave the clutch , after that you push the clutch again and shift to the next gear . when you read it it seems silly , but it faster and that way when you have a huge power under the hood it will not blow up on you :) , its hard when you start practicing it but when your used to it its better .

if im not clear please tell me and i will try to explain again if needed

so that the rpm would not jump too high and destroy the engine in new cars they have a device that does that ( i know the name in hebrew but not in english sorry guys)
It's called electronic rev limiter.

so that the rpm would not jump too high and destroy the engine in new cars they have a device that does that ( i know the name in hebrew but not in english sorry guys)
It's called electronic rev limiter.

youve missed the point there Jim... thats not what white is getting at......

I know it's a bit off-topic but I just gave the name of the device. For informational reasons. :D

so that the rpm would not jump too high and destroy the engine in new cars they have a device that does that ( i know the name in hebrew but not in english sorry guys)
It's called electronic rev limiter.

i don't think that what the devise is called ,
i think you ment by the "electronic rev limiter" is the devise which limits you from getting to high rpm .. and you can take off easily , the thing im talking about ain't that .

the automatic transimtion have another devise which "stedy" the RPM to the wanted high , and this devise is the reason why automatic transimtions are slower than regular gear box .

by the way the fastest is the sequental gear box . you have the same preformance from a regular gear box if the transmition is made perfect , which means you must be a robot :) and this aint possoble :wink:

i don't think that what the devise is called ,
i think you ment by the "electronic rev limiter" is the devise which limits you from getting to high rpm .. and you can take off easily , the thing im talking about ain't that .
Nooo that thing is the launch control! :D

i don't think that what the devise is called ,
i think you ment by the "electronic rev limiter" is the devise which limits you from getting to high rpm .. and you can take off easily , the thing im talking about ain't that .
Nooo that thing is the launch control! :D

no its not!!!
white is now explaining how the rev limiter allows you to put the throttle down full and the rev limiter will automatically cut the throttle to prevent severe engine damage.
Lauch control is when you have a device that holds the engine at optimum revs say 6K rpm in the M3 CSL and then you release the button, 1st gear engages and in theory you should have the fastest start possible.

That's what I said. :?
Anyway we got confused, white-night meant one of those two things.

Jim, ο White-Night εννοει το "συνχρονιζέ" που εχουν τα καινουργια αυτοκινητα στο κιβωτιο.

Jim, ο White-Night εννοει το "συνχρονιζέ" που εχουν τα καινουργια αυτοκινητα στο κιβωτιο.

whats that1?@

Jim, ο White-Night εννοει το "συνχρονιζέ" που εχουν τα καινουργια αυτοκινητα στο κιβωτιο.
Τα συγχρονιζέ τα έχουν όλα τα αυτοκίνητα (και τα παλιά) και χρησιμεύουν στο να κουμπώνουν οι ταχύτητες. Είναι κάτι γραναζάκια που εμπλέκουν τον δευτερεύοντα άξονα του κιβωτίου με τον άξονα που έρχεται από τη μηχανή. Αυτός εννοεί κάτι σε σχέση με τη μηχανή εσωτερικά, και υποψιάζομαι ότι εννοεί τον κόφτη των στροφών. Τέλος πάντων ας το αφήσουμε. Και καλό είναι να μη μιλάμε ελληνικά γιατι μου την έχουνε πει στο παρελθόν για αυτό το πράγμα.

Guys never mind our little greek conversation (just talking technical stuff cause we don't know the words), I'm dropping it and lets get back to the topic.

when do you use double clutch???
is it only when lauching or in every shift?

when do you use double clutch???
is it only when lauching or in every shift?

it owuld have been for every shift...
I wouldnt worry about it - no modern cars have them, i think a few lambo's had them, and they where the last production car to have one, that was early 80's/late 70's i think.

when do you use double clutch???
is it only when lauching or in every shift?

it owuld have been for every shift...
I wouldnt worry about it - no modern cars have them, i think a few lambo's had them, and they where the last production car to have one, that was early 80's/late 70's i think.

cool...... thanx....
coz i often hear people say about double clutch but i didn't know what it was..

I would just like to clarify what double clutching is. Double clutching is when, while shifting up, you shift, say, from second into third, you shift from second to neutral, with the clutch, then let the engine slow down to the speed of the gears for about half to one second, then shift from neutral to third. While shifting down, say, from third to second, you shift from third into neutral, then blip the engine to bring it up to the speed of the gears, then shift from neutral into second. This actually decreases wear and tear on your transmission.

I would just like to clarify what double clutching is. Double clutching is when, while shifting up, you shift, say, from second into third, you shift from second to neutral, with the clutch, then let the engine slow down to the speed of the gears for about half to one second, then shift from neutral to third. While shifting down, say, from third to second, you shift from third into neutral, then blip the engine to bring it up to the speed of the gears, then shift from neutral into second. This actually decreases wear and tear on your transmission.

It's only used on downshifting and it is used on old trucks where the transmissions had no syncros. There is no use doing it on todays cars.

Most people who race rev match and heel toe shift. I heel toe shift unless I'm just going to get milk or something, but I have gotten in the habit of doing one or the other all the time.

Normal clutching will cause more wear on the clutch and the synchronizers that keep the gears at the same speed as the engine than double clutching will. This will make your transmission last much longer.

Double clutching: i bet you $5 that you got that from "The fast and the furious". There is absolutely no reason to double clutching, unless the transmission in that car was made before about 1940, which it most likely was not. Double clutching need only be done in a car (or truck) that has a transmission that is not synchronized. The only thing double clutching would do is make you slower

He is asking for a double disc clutch. Yes, you can get a double disc clutch for your powerful car. The bad thing about it it's that it will be harder to press it. I never used it (consciencifully <--that word exists? :p) but that is the theory.

When I hear the word double clutching I think off old Landsverk army vehicle with double gearboxes :) or i am thinking off another technical system?

He is asking for a double disc clutch. Yes, you can get a double disc clutch for your powerful car. The bad thing about it it's that it will be harder to press it. I never used it (consciencifully <--that word exists? :p) but that is the theory.

They are called twin and triple disc clutches. I have an Ogura twin disc and it definately gives your left leg a workout. It also makes a lot of noise, but I love mine, the hotter it gets the sticker it gets. It handles a 6500 RPM clutch feather just fine, doesn't burn at all.

Well, yeah, just a translation matter :p I try my best :p

Well, yeah, just a translation matter :p I try my best :p

No problem, it's completely understandable. I had a guy call me "mate" today. Never met an aussie I didn't like.

The device that keeps automatic transmissions slower than manuals is called a hydraulic torque converter. its basically two fans in an enclosure filled with hydraulic fluid, one fan spins, and it churns up the fluid causing the other fan to spin. this is why you can sit at a stop light in gear, and also the reason you need to keep your foot on the break. It is placed after the engine and before the transmission because they work better at high rpm's (as opposed to after the transmission before the driveshaft, you wouldnt go anywhere, you would just make alot of noise). by the way, the double clutch that most people talk about is "double clutching," its an action, not a device. and its to keep from damaging the gears in your transmission, people used to do it before syncromesh was invented, because you could easily grind gears just going from first to second. there is a device called the double clutch, used in high performance track cars, which has two separate sets of clutch plates, and links one to the gear up or down from the one you are in, so that when you hit your little finger pad, it will change gears in 2 milliseconds or so, they are high tech and new, not outdated, they have never been in production cars, asside from the veyron.

there is a device called the double clutch, used in high performance track cars, which has two separate sets of clutch plates, and links one to the gear up or down from the one you are in, so that when you hit your little finger pad, it will change gears in 2 milliseconds or so, they are high tech and new, not outdated, they have never been in production cars, asside from the veyron.
They are in production; the gearbox you're talking about is the DSG from VW/Audi.

Other than that, great post dude.

That's the one in Audi TT, right? A desirable semi automatic transmission.

The device that keeps automatic transmissions slower than manuals is called a hydraulic torque converter. its basically two fans in an enclosure filled with hydraulic fluid, one fan spins, and it churns up the fluid causing the other fan to spin. this is why you can sit at a stop light in gear, and also the reason you need to keep your foot on the break. It is placed after the engine and before the transmission because they work better at high rpm's (as opposed to after the transmission before the driveshaft, you wouldnt go anywhere, you would just make alot of noise). by the way, the double clutch that most people talk about is "double clutching," its an action, not a device. and its to keep from damaging the gears in your transmission, people used to do it before syncromesh was invented, because you could easily grind gears just going from first to second. there is a device called the double clutch, used in high performance track cars, which has two separate sets of clutch plates, and links one to the gear up or down from the one you are in, so that when you hit your little finger pad, it will change gears in 2 milliseconds or so, they are high tech and new, not outdated, they have never been in production cars, asside from the veyron.
Finnaly someone knows what they are talking about.

This mans got it! Basically what the gentlemen have talked about the clutch converter is the part but the action is He about the correct double clutching.( as the man spoke from prior forums) From the streets double clutching is about shift not once for each exchange of power, but twice for each gear. Giving a five speed manual, 10X the power interchange. Especially a turbo car like WRX[-X , 350ZDETT, Supra JZDETT, RX-713btt,hell even those ugly eclispe 1st gens. Having a WRX myself, I know that you have to spool up and just lanuch, and lanuch again....If you don't than you are doing something wrong. Tear up that clutch and put a new one in, maybe something with a little more grab. Dual force, is what most people on this forum are getting at. Not the true skilled driver's double clutching..........It is just as it sounds, Double clutching!!!! You clutch twice for every 3,000-Tach interchange.(different for other cars such as:V-tec motors, supercharged motors, etc.)

Double clutching: i bet you $5 that you got that from "The fast and the furious". There is absolutely no reason to double clutching, unless the transmission in that car was made before about 1940, which it most likely was not. Double clutching need only be done in a car (or truck) that has a transmission that is not synchronized. The only thing double clutching would do is make you slower
Correct me if Im wrong
Even if the gearbox has synchros... it'll wear it over time...
So isnt it good practice to double clutch (when downshifting), to save ur synchros/gearbox
Also, double clutching is more commonly used in downshifting (e.g. from 2nd to 1st).

Correct me if Im wrong
Even if the gearbox has synchros... it'll wear it over time...
So isnt it good practice to double clutch (when downshifting), to save ur synchros/gearbox
Also, double clutching is more commonly used in downshifting (e.g. from 2nd to 1st).

Rev matching yes, double clutching no. You are wasting time with double clutching. Look up heel/toe shifting, That is much more useful.

i know what that is... heel/toe shifting

i always thought double clutching and rev matching were similar... lol
guess i was wrong

Not only The Clutch will go bad ,the bearings,rings lifetime will shorten its commonsense,one law in thermodrnamics is a raise in temperature will result in a raise in the other stages not that this statement has nothing to do with your clutch but it serves as an example,another thing more hp means more stress on your engine,the pistons consists of one oil ring and two compression rings,and these rings will deteriorate more quickly and when they do they will scrape the cylinder walls and at this time it will start to burn a white smoke which will worsen because of oil leakage in the cylinders,then you will need to overhaul and rebore your engine block,all these problems are caused by THERMAL STRESS.

Correct me if Im wrong
Even if the gearbox has synchros... it'll wear it over time...
So isnt it good practice to double clutch (when downshifting), to save ur synchros/gearbox
Also, double clutching is more commonly used in downshifting (e.g. from 2nd to 1st).
Have you ever seen a cars gear box ,you clutch in and the clutch plate seperates from the engine so whats the need for double clutch,it seems you are more into driving haulers than cars

Have you ever seen a cars gear box ,you clutch in and the clutch plate seperates from the engine so whats the need for double clutch,it seems you are more into driving haulers than cars
I cant imagine AznFuman haulin something lol..

its just like driving a big old truck

i heard that double clutching gets the rpms up or somethin and that it works really good if your car is turbocharged. is that correct?:confused:

i heard that double clutching gets the rpms up or somethin and that it works really good if your car is turbocharged. is that correct?:confused:

You might be thinking about clutch-kicking - a technique they use often in drifting.

oh thanks. so how do you do that

What is clutch-kicking?

Double clutching: i bet you $5 that you got that from "The fast and the furious". There is absolutely no reason to double clutching, unless the transmission in that car was made before about 1940, which it most likely was not. Double clutching need only be done in a car (or truck) that has a transmission that is not synchronized. The only thing double clutching would do is make you slower

This guy is kind of making sense! WOW! He even got the little rice rocket wannabies in place! GOOD.. I agree to that there is no need of "double clutchin" in a stock car with a manual gearbox, unless it does not contain a syncromesh device that will tune the rotations per minute of the engines driveshaft at the same one of that in the gearbox.. Double clutch will just wear the actual friggin wire from the pedal to wherever it is connected..!.. end of story.. OHH, and please if you are going to learn how to double clutch..dont take it out of some movie..

I have a nice little story to share.. This friend of a frinend.. (this guy is a junior wannabe spoiled brat kid) told me he could double clutch.. I say really?... How is it done? -Mind you, he is serious, (he also crashed his dads 2000 M-Benz SL55, more specifically, preformed a hit and run!!) and he did not even have a driverslicense at the time.. The only thing he told me was complete rubbish!

The procedure of double clutching is..


Let off the throttle, press in the clutch, and shift to neutral.
Let out the clutch.
Bump the throttle.
Press in the clutch.
As the engine speed decreases to match the transmission speed, throw the stick into the next lower gear. Since you actively "matched the revs", it should fall right in!
Let out the clutch.
Now -Heel/toe downshifting is faar better and also kinder to the environment...might make someone happy...:idea:

Yes ,you're right ,but this dobule clutch is really for old cars and bikes.The new version of double clutch is that it really uses two clutches , so any of the horsepower is thrown away, becausew while you're shifting gears the power is converted to the axel.And you dont have to press the clutch twice.:)

okay, just to clarify something, vin deasil in the fast and the furios said "granny shifting instead of double clutchin like you should", any one know wth he was talking about, or if he was false or what ever? from what i have read no one double clutchs anymore, or somehting, i dont know. it was really confusing, and does anyone know what granny shifting is?