What should American Auto makers do to compete with Japanese Auto makers Dodge has the right idea with the SRT-4, but where is every one else?

GM is starting to, Saturn Ion Redline is out....
And the Chevrolet Cobolt SS comes out soon....

in my eyes, performance wise, america has already taken over the compact segment. The SVT, SRT-4 and redline could definetly trounce a SE-R or a civicSi. The EVo ad Sti are in there own element right now, but i thkkn the new mustang GT will catch up with them.

more and more I'm beggining to see that America and Japan cars is unfair. Lemme clarify. Both of these nations automakers specialize in different things. Japan has a ginrormous compact car market because of the limited space, resources, and fuel. Small cars with smaller, more effecient engines. As far as I can tell, this tranlsates directly to higher engineering quality. There is no room in Japan for huge junk yards or auto grave feilds. Americans like Trucks and SUV's. #1 selling vehicle in the US is a Truck, the Ford F-150. There is more room than we know what to do with. Why do you think that only America had muscle cars? Why do you think that Japan never produced anything like the huge displacement road machines of yesteryear? SUV's and Trucks, the presumed 'msucle cars' of today(oh! v-8! oh! v-6!) have a grip on the masses and on;y now is EVERYONE starting to produce excellent products across a broad range of cars. Japan, precision engineering, America, bigger is better. Ford GT, Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and GTO's of today all come in V-8 flavors. The Viper has a V-10 and the new Mustang Shelby 500 just might have one too. Okay, Japan makes a very small handful of V-8's and only one or two are in cars, not SUV's or Trucks. What are the Japan big hitters? Straight and Vee sixes, and rotary (1.3 freakin liters!). That's it! Awesome ones! Sure, most are turbo, but the forced induction is done so well that it doesn't take much away from the durability of parts, ect. "Oh man, my Mustang can whip your Intergra Type-R" Well, duh, a decent, slighty modified 5.4 liter V-8 RWD car is gonna spank a 2 liter FWD in straight lines. But whats this? You can take a normal I-4 and make it spit out more power than a V-6? Yes! That's the Japanese idea! Taking smaller displacement and making so much more than you can imgaine out of it. On top of that, you're gonna have fun driving this car. It's gonna handle better, respond better, and just do everything that a large clunkly Mustang can't. But again, two different philosophies, two different kinds of cars. But, when cars are comparable, I think the Japanese will always come out on top.

more and more I'm beggining to see that America and Japan cars is unfair. Lemme clarify. Both of these nations automakers specialize in different things. Japan has a ginrormous compact car market because of the limited space, resources, and fuel. Small cars with smaller, more effecient engines. As far as I can tell, this tranlsates directly to higher engineering quality. There is no room in Japan for huge junk yards or auto grave feilds. Americans like Trucks and SUV's. #1 selling vehicle in the US is a Truck, the Ford F-150. There is more room than we know what to do with. Why do you think that only America had muscle cars? Why do you think that Japan never produced anything like the huge displacement road machines of yesteryear? SUV's and Trucks, the presumed 'msucle cars' of today(oh! v-8! oh! v-6!) have a grip on the masses and on;y now is EVERYONE starting to produce excellent products across a broad range of cars. Japan, precision engineering, America, bigger is better. Ford GT, Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and GTO's of today all come in V-8 flavors. The Viper has a V-10 and the new Mustang Shelby 500 just might have one too. Okay, Japan makes a very small handful of V-8's and only one or two are in cars, not SUV's or Trucks. What are the Japan big hitters? Straight and Vee sixes, and rotary (1.3 freakin liters!). That's it! Awesome ones! Sure, most are turbo, but the forced induction is done so well that it doesn't take much away from the durability of parts, ect. "Oh man, my Mustang can whip your Intergra Type-R" Well, duh, a decent, slighty modified 5.4 liter V-8 RWD car is gonna spank a 2 liter FWD in straight lines. But whats this? You can take a normal I-4 and make it spit out more power than a V-6? Yes! That's the Japanese idea! Taking smaller displacement and making so much more than you can imgaine out of it. On top of that, you're gonna have fun driving this car. It's gonna handle better, respond better, and just do everything that a large clunkly Mustang can't. But again, two different philosophies, two different kinds of cars. But, when cars are comparable, I think the Japanese will always come out on top.

right on... I agree... one thing to add though... American V-8s have actually become a lot more efficient these days.

It's gonna handle better, respond better, and just do everything that a large clunkly Mustang can't.

Where do you come up with this dude? I have autocrossed with many Mustangs and Camaros that EASILY beat the Jap cars. Just because a car is American and has a V8 doesn't mean its can't handle. My car pulls over 0.91 g and sticks like glue.

more and more I'm beggining to see that America and Japan cars is unfair. Lemme clarify. Both of these nations automakers specialize in different things. Japan has a ginrormous compact car market because of the limited space, resources, and fuel. Small cars with smaller, more effecient engines. As far as I can tell, this tranlsates directly to higher engineering quality. There is no room in Japan for huge junk yards or auto grave feilds. Americans like Trucks and SUV's. #1 selling vehicle in the US is a Truck, the Ford F-150. There is more room than we know what to do with. Why do you think that only America had muscle cars? Why do you think that Japan never produced anything like the huge displacement road machines of yesteryear? SUV's and Trucks, the presumed 'msucle cars' of today(oh! v-8! oh! v-6!) have a grip on the masses and on;y now is EVERYONE starting to produce excellent products across a broad range of cars. Japan, precision engineering, America, bigger is better. Ford GT, Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and GTO's of today all come in V-8 flavors. The Viper has a V-10 and the new Mustang Shelby 500 just might have one too. Okay, Japan makes a very small handful of V-8's and only one or two are in cars, not SUV's or Trucks. What are the Japan big hitters? Straight and Vee sixes, and rotary (1.3 freakin liters!). That's it! Awesome ones! Sure, most are turbo, but the forced induction is done so well that it doesn't take much away from the durability of parts, ect. "Oh man, my Mustang can whip your Intergra Type-R" Well, duh, a decent, slighty modified 5.4 liter V-8 RWD car is gonna spank a 2 liter FWD in straight lines. But whats this? You can take a normal I-4 and make it spit out more power than a V-6? Yes! That's the Japanese idea! Taking smaller displacement and making so much more than you can imgaine out of it. On top of that, you're gonna have fun driving this car. It's gonna handle better, respond better, and just do everything that a large clunkly Mustang can't. But again, two different philosophies, two different kinds of cars. But, when cars are comparable, I think the Japanese will always come out on top.
Dude raith this is one of the most excellent posts I've seen in my life. :idea:

Nicely said Raith83.

Very nice post.. :). I think that you are right.. IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market.. Its so huge that they should focus just on that! I wouldn't care if Japan had the compact market.. GM and Ford sell MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of trucks and SUVs. I would focus my attention on keeping that market and maybe release a cheap compact every year or two. If they try to rule the market.. they're going to end up losing everything.. For example.. if Ford is so focused (hey its a compact too!) on taking over the compact market they could potentially lose the SUV market. Japanese auto makers are so far ahead that it would take time, and money (lots of it) to overthrow the Japanese. I think that American auto makers should be smart, and be happy with what they got.

Very nice post.. :). I think that you are right.. IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market.. Its so huge that they should focus just on that! I wouldn't care if Japan had the compact market.. GM and Ford sell MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of trucks and SUVs. I would focus my attention on keeping that market and maybe release a cheap compact every year or two. If they try to rule the market.. they're going to end up losing everything.. For example.. if Ford is so focused (hey its a compact too!) on taking over the compact market they could potentially lose the SUV market. Japanese auto makers are so far ahead that it would take time, and money (lots of it) to overthrow the Japanese. I think that American auto makers should be smart, and be happy with what they got.

I agree... although Americans aren't as far back as people tend to believe...

I agree... although Americans aren't as far back as people tend to believe... I think so too, take a look at the new F-150. Way better then last years model to me.

I dont think Americas behind Japan. I do see a trend though started by primarily import drivers that rings very true. If its American and it has a V8 it cant handle. Thats pretty much to quote BlueCamSS. Here is my outlook and its why people "hate" pretty much anything out of Japan (like hondas, to mention another post). #1 You arent very knowledgable on the subject matter. I hear garbage like what Raith said all the time. Mustangs, clunky, camaro clunky, etc etc. Total filth. To those who tune, to those who spend long dedicated hours at the track, to those who actually study their vehicles, and the competition, its an abomination to hear the type of crap that comes out of the majority of import drivers. Within the now HUGE niche of import drivers is this ungodly large group of people who dont know what they're talking about. In all honesty, even my bone stock 90 GT will pound a Civic, a Accord, a Prelude or any number of japanese cars in the corners. Its hardly clunky (except maybe the stock T5 tranny hehe) has gobs of power and sticks, again to quote BlueCam, "like glue". #2 Lets try to keeper a broader mind when dealing with cars. The Majority of people I have talked to who have legitimately driven a Mustang Gt/Cobra or Camaro Z28/SS that said they were "clunky" is quite honestly because they werent used to the torque they put out and usually ended up pogoing (bouncing violently back and forth) the car or burning the crap out of the clutch because well, from a dead stop you dont have to rev it to build up torque to move. They dont have to drive around revving the crap out of it or cruising at 3500+ rpms either, but they do. Somehow this eludes them.
I consider myself to be very fair and knowledgable of a good deal of automotive facts. I like all cars but I tend to gravitate to those who are capable of doing anything on a major scale. I am non biased when discussing facts as well. I'd be just as quick to let you know that a Integra Type-R pulls a much faster slalom then either the mustang or camaro.
Japan in many ways doesnt hold a candle to American cars. Especially in the topic of sheer power. However. The Japanese seem to do a lot of things really well. Hard to talk any smack about companies that have such well crafted, well rounded products. Oh and btw Raith. The GT and Cobra both have 4.6 liter V8's. In SOHC and DOHC versions respectively. That as they say is that.

I dont think Americas behind Japan. I do see a trend though started by primarily import drivers that rings very true. If its American and it has a V8 it cant handle. Thats pretty much to quote BlueCamSS. Here is my outlook and its why people "hate" pretty much anything out of Japan (like hondas, to mention another post). #1 You arent very knowledgable on the subject matter. I hear garbage like what Raith said all the time. Mustangs, clunky, camaro clunky, etc etc. Total filth. To those who tune, to those who spend long dedicated hours at the track, to those who actually study their vehicles, and the competition, its an abomination to hear the type of crap that comes out of the majority of import drivers. Within the now HUGE niche of import drivers is this ungodly large group of people who dont know what they're talking about. In all honesty, even my bone stock 90 GT will pound a Civic, a Accord, a Prelude or any number of japanese cars in the corners. Its hardly clunky (except maybe the stock T5 tranny hehe) has gobs of power and sticks, again to quote BlueCam, "like glue". #2 Lets try to keeper a broader mind when dealing with cars. The Majority of people I have talked to who have legitimately driven a Mustang Gt/Cobra or Camaro Z28/SS that said they were "clunky" is quite honestly because they werent used to the torque they put out and usually ended up pogoing (bouncing violently back and forth) the car or burning the crap out of the clutch because well, from a dead stop you dont have to rev it to build up torque to move. They dont have to drive around revving the crap out of it or cruising at 3500+ rpms either, but they do. Somehow this eludes them.
I consider myself to be very fair and knowledgable of a good deal of automotive facts. I like all cars but I tend to gravitate to those who are capable of doing anything on a major scale. I am non biased when discussing facts as well. I'd be just as quick to let you know that a Integra Type-R pulls a much faster slalom then either the mustang or camaro.
Japan in many ways doesnt hold a candle to American cars. Especially in the topic of sheer power. However. The Japanese seem to do a lot of things really well. Hard to talk any smack about companies that have such well crafted, well rounded products. Oh and btw Raith. The GT and Cobra both have 4.6 liter V8's. In SOHC and DOHC versions respectively. That as they say is that.

VERY well said....

Very nice post.. :). IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market..

well, i think GM should really be taxed for moving productions out of the US and into cheap labor countries; 30000, thats right, thirty thousand laid off in a matter of a few days :!:

Very nice post.. :). IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market..

well, i think GM should really be taxed for moving productions out of the US and into cheap labor countries; 30000, thats right, thirty thousand laid off in a matter of a few days :!:


Well how bout Mitsu laying off basically the same? Layoffs happen. But I never heard about those layoffs anyway.

Very nice post.. :). IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market..

well, i think GM should really be taxed for moving productions out of the US and into cheap labor countries; 30000, thats right, thirty thousand laid off in a matter of a few days :!:


Well how bout Mitsu laying off basically the same? Layoffs happen. But I never heard about those layoffs anyway.

ever heard of a city called flint? or a man named michael moore?

could you tell me more about mitsu's layoff's :?:

Very nice post.. :). IMO I think that the Government should remove that huge import tax and just keep the SUV and Truck market..

well, i think GM should really be taxed for moving productions out of the US and into cheap labor countries; 30000, thats right, thirty thousand laid off in a matter of a few days :!:


Well how bout Mitsu laying off basically the same? Layoffs happen. But I never heard about those layoffs anyway.

ever heard of a city called flint? or a man named michael moore?

could you tell me more about mitsu's layoff's :?:

That was how many years ago.:roll:
And this is off topic, lets get back on topic....

Where do you come up with this dude? I have autocrossed with many Mustangs and Camaros that EASILY beat the Jap cars. Just because a car is American and has a V8 doesn't mean its can't handle. My car pulls over 0.91 g and sticks like glue.

Ah, I opverstated myself again :lol: . Didn't mean to imply that a large motor meant no handling. What i was thinking of was the TWENTY FIVE YEAR OLD CHASSIS OF THE MUSTANG. Again, over and over, the reveiws have been displeased with Ford just hacking on parts for the "new model year". FYI, The "squeaks and rattle"s from the 03 SVT with 55k on it is from a Car and Driver Mag. I trust people whos WHOLE lives are about cars and whose credibility is on the line with every reveiw. I know a single persons experience with cars will never be able to accuratle gauge the state of all the cars out there. Get good tires, tweak your suspesnion and get some cross members, and you can make a truck handle well. Pulling g's is important, but you can't tell me that a Camaro is more responsive than a light weight, nimble, Integra. RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO, and more fun to drive. An less expensive for gas too :wink:

Here's some more things to munch on

Consumer repots! the proof is in the pudding, wherever the F that saying came from :lol:
http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/best_worst_used.html?refsrc=autos/eyak So whats reliable and good after some odd years? 2 out of the top 50 are American, the rest are Japanese. The worst of em? A handful of VWs and the rest are Aemrican, Hmmmmm

And for new cars? Lemme see...
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/02/cz_jf_1202flint.html
so, GM 'matches' Honda with the number of cars with the Consumer Reports seal of approval. Mind you, GM is inclusive of TEN brands of car, Saab and Opel, definitly NOT American cars. Ford Motors 'matches' Nissan with 8 cars. Again, Ford has EIGHT different car brands and Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, and Aston Martin are NOT American cars. So whos freakin' behind? This SHOULD make it horribly obvious.

It seems to me that us in the States need to get it together right?!!!!

RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO,:

OMG dude you really have no idea what good handling is do you????
FWD handling is CRAP RWD can be driven through a turn if you get out of shape under power, FWD PUSHES under power and YOU DON'T GO WHERE YOU WANT....anybody who thinks a FWD car handles good either has NO real knowledge of car dynamics OR has horrible driving skills!!!!

FWD is ok when the car is driven normally, the difference with RWD is noticeable only when you push the car to the limit (aka racing). But for everyday driving FWD is almost as good.

FWD is ok when the car is driven normally, the difference with RWD is noticeable only when you push the car to the limit (aka racing). But for everyday driving FWD is almost as good.

RWD is better even if you only plan to push your car a little....FWD has crappy dynamics....

RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO,:OMG dude you really have no idea what good handling is do you????
FWD handling is CRAP RWD can be driven through a turn if you get out of shape under power, FWD PUSHES under power and YOU DON'T GO WHERE YOU WANT....anybody who thinks a FWD car handles good either has NO real knowledge of car dynamics OR has horrible driving skills!!!! BluCamSS, and you ask me if I ever graduated high school :!: Can't you read: RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO,: Did you read the last word :?: IN MT OPINION :!: Don't get so mad man :?

RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO,:OMG dude you really have no idea what good handling is do you????
FWD handling is CRAP RWD can be driven through a turn if you get out of shape under power, FWD PUSHES under power and YOU DON'T GO WHERE YOU WANT....anybody who thinks a FWD car handles good either has NO real knowledge of car dynamics OR has horrible driving skills!!!! BluCamSS, and you ask me if I ever graduated high school :!: Can't you read: RWD means slipping if you floor it in the corners, FWD means flooring it in the corners is the best thing to do. Better handling, IMO,: Did you read the last word :?: IN MT OPINION :!: Don't get so mad man :?

I read it, and I saw "IMO" and I was stating why his "opinion" is totally wrong....
I wasn't "mad" I was correcting a wrong....is that okay? :roll:

Ya, whatever :roll:

Rear-Wheel-Drive=best handling under normal conditions; takes more gas than FWD; horrible for ice and deep snow
4WD=best traction on ice and deep snow and such; guzzles the most gas; not great for normal conditions
FWD=better traction on ice and deep snow than Rear-wheel-drive but second to rwd on normal conditions; best gas mileage


there you have it...

Here's some more things to munch on

Consumer repots! the proof is in the pudding, wherever the F that saying came from :lol:
http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/best_worst_used.html?refsrc=autos/eyak So whats reliable and good after some odd years? 2 out of the top 50 are American, the rest are Japanese. The worst of em? A handful of VWs and the rest are Aemrican, Hmmmmm

And for new cars? Lemme see...
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/02/cz_jf_1202flint.html
so, GM 'matches' Honda with the number of cars with the Consumer Reports seal of approval. Mind you, GM is inclusive of TEN brands of car, Saab and Opel, definitly NOT American cars. Ford Motors 'matches' Nissan with 8 cars. Again, Ford has EIGHT different car brands and Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, and Aston Martin are NOT American cars. So whos freakin' behind? This SHOULD make it horribly obvious.

whoa.... and those 2 reliable american cars aren't even made anymore! :lol: :lol: and their replacements are on the unreliable list now! :lol:

2 VW's and one MB on the unreliable list, rest are american.... :shock: :shock:

Here's some more things to munch on

Consumer repots! the proof is in the pudding, wherever the F that saying came from :lol:
http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/best_worst_used.html?refsrc=autos/eyak So whats reliable and good after some odd years? 2 out of the top 50 are American, the rest are Japanese. The worst of em? A handful of VWs and the rest are Aemrican, Hmmmmm

And for new cars? Lemme see...
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/02/cz_jf_1202flint.html
so, GM 'matches' Honda with the number of cars with the Consumer Reports seal of approval. Mind you, GM is inclusive of TEN brands of car, Saab and Opel, definitly NOT American cars. Ford Motors 'matches' Nissan with 8 cars. Again, Ford has EIGHT different car brands and Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, and Aston Martin are NOT American cars. So whos freakin' behind? This SHOULD make it horribly obvious.

whoa.... and those 2 reliable american cars aren't even made anymore! :lol: :lol: and their replacements are on the unreliable list now! :lol:

2 VW's and one MB on the unreliable list, rest are american.... :shock: :shock:

There is pleanty of sites that say otherwise, some of you are to damn opinonated. This was not a reliablity topic, as usual the same few messed this one up.:roll:

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