Hey peeps! :D Anyone here a fan of 80's movies? Not me, but I do like this one movie called The Wraith. It was a mid eighties movie that starred Charlie Sheen as a ghost back from the dead searching for vengeance(wraith), and he drove a 1980-something Dodge PPG Turbo Interceptor. This is my unicorn(gone in sixty seconds). I don't care how fast any car is, this car is unique.

:twisted: Now this is one sweet ride. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.us-car-history.de/filmautos/interceptor/Turbo5.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.us-car-history.de/filmautos/interceptor/interceptor.htm&hl=en&h=245&w=324&start= 1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTurbo%2BInterceptor%26svnum %3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN

I have to apologize to the Asia and Pacific car forums for my "brain fart" but coming into the idea that whatever car that I would favor would eventually be obsolete made me think of this beautiful car. This car is almost one of a kind, only six in existance(that i know of). I'll post more specs.

I'll post more specs. I suggest you post some better pics :lol:

Here are some specs and front view of Turbo Interceptor: http://images.merkur-xr4ti.com/other/generated/turbomopar/Large_Shelby_Dodge_Ad_72dpi__scaled_512. jpg

http://images.merkur-xr4ti.com/other/albums/turbomopar/Wraith_-_Engine_Passenger_DoorOpen.jpg

http://images.merkur-xr4ti.com/other/albums/turbomopar/Wraith_-_Front_Bay.jpg

http://images.merkur-xr4ti.com/other/albums/turbomopar/Wraith_-_Engine_Overhead.jpg

http://images.merkur-xr4ti.com/other/albums/turbomopar/Wraith_-_Side_View.jpg

http://www.fast-rewind.com/wraith3.jpg

Damn this car is hard to find stuff on...if i remember correctly the car is a four cylinder, twin turbo with 440 hp and has a top speed of 202, other than that I'm drawing blanks

http://www.us-car-history.de/filmautos/interceptor/Wraith2.jpg

440 hp/ top speed of 202

HIGHLY unlikely.

im willing to bet you that it's true.
Shelby VNT
The Dodge PPG Interceptor also know offically by it's Dodge name, the M4S, is a car that was built in the early 80's. 1984 to exact is the model year. It had very little in commom with anything produced by Dodge in those times. It was NOT just a Daytona with a different body. The only thing the M4S shared with the Daytonas of the day was the 2.2 liter engine block and the 5 speed manual transmission. On top the block was a highly modified Cosworth 16 valve twin cam head. It was force fed with twin Garret T-25 turbochargers and fueled with Bosch- L Jettronic fuel injection. It made 440 hp and had a top speed as tested by Road and Track to 194.8 mph. It did 0 to 60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 mile at 12.9 at 104 mph. Rumor had it that there was also another engine that was making 600 hp. The M4S was a mid-engine designed car designed by Dodge as a concept for future production, but due to it's high cost construction the idea for production was dropped seeing how Dodge didn't think anybody would be interested in a high proced sports car in those days. Remember this was 1984. Long before the Interceptor M4S made an appearance in the low budget film 'The Wraith' it saw use as an actual Indy pace car. The only modification the M4S received was flashing strobe lights for serving duty as the Indy pace car. After it's first major appearance to the public at Indy the car was donated by Chrysler for use in the movie 'The Wraith'. A place called Code One was contracted to build some replicas of the real prototype M4S for the movie. I've read that up to 30 of these cars were built for crash sequences and stunts. After the movie filming was over the car was returned to Dodge. Flash forward to today and apparently there are know to be 4 M4S's in exsistance. One was last known to be located in the head quaters for PPG Industries. One of the others is located at the Walter P. Chysler Museum in Aubum, Michigan and is on regular display. The last thing I heard was that there is a place, and I'm not sure of the name, that makes reproduction PPG Interceptor rolling chassis's for sale to the publiuc after buying the rights. They have a website on the internet as well and a complete car sells for something close to $70,000. However the engine is not a Dodge 2.2 twin turbo. I believe they stick Chevy 350's in the car instead much like any other kit type car. The coolest thing would be to buy a rolling chassis and throw a good old Dodge 2.2 liter Turbo II engine in it modified to make 300 hp or more. Thats about all I know of the PPG Interceptor

im willing to bet you that it's true.
Shelby VNT It made 440 hp and had a top speed as tested by Road and Track to 194.8 mph. It did 0 to 60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 mile at 12.9 at 104 mph.

Well I can tell you just by looking at those stats somethings wrong. IF is really has 440 hp that 104 mph trap speed is way low, and it should run a mid 12. For a car of that size/shape/weight to hit 202 it would need WAY more then 440 hp.

YOU don't even know the cars size weight and shape

Im working on locating the information.

Unfortunately, it's hard to locate a source since the car is about 20 years old and never really took off because of its high tag price.

YOU don't even know the cars size weight and shape

I have eyes, and I can take a pretty good guess of the weight....
I guess you don't know about power to weight ratio and gearing when it
comes to top speed. 440 hp, in a car that runs a 12.9 @ 104 would never
push it to 202 mph...add at least 100 more hp....then MAYBE.

Im working on locating the information.What's the car's name anyway :?:

How about this: If i dont find proper specs in two hours, tomorrow morning after class I'll call up Dodge and have them mail me some specs. You have eyes: you must need glasses... Plus your keyword is GUESS..."GUESS" is not accurate

Turbo Interceptor is what it's called. I've seen a constant correllation between specs, including HP and Top Speed; meaning that you are just one opinion compared to twenty websites. Unfortunately the car isn't popular so they keep shutting down imortant fact sites.

Oh and BTW, 1/4 mile is done by a driver- therefore it might not even been the vehicle, it may have been the driver's fault.

:arrow: TheCivicProject

just wanna remind you that there is something in the forum called edit message , you should use it insteas of replying to yourself 4 times in a row !

TheCivicProject

just wanna remind you that there is something in the forum called edit message , you should use it insteas of replying to yourself 4 times in a row !


Thank you for reminding me, the "edit" sign on the top right totally evaded me. I guess you, just like me, need to do some editing. hahaha

How about this: If i dont find proper specs in two hours, tomorrow morning after class I'll call up Dodge and have them mail me some specs. You have eyes: you must need glasses... Plus your keyword is GUESS..."GUESS" is not accurate

You can think what you want, you have no clue how horsepower equates to top speed. That much I can now see. :roll:

I don't quite like the design... The specs are awesome though. :shock:

Okay BluCamSS, look; if you think you are right, find the information DISPROVING my claim, then I will agree. You may disagree with me all you want until I get the proper information.

btw: this car is NOT where I got my screen name from :lol:
for 84, that's a really sweet car, and I think the 600 hp engine would push it to at least 202 mph. This is why I joined this forum in the first place. Finding out about cool cars I never knew about before. It's such an exhileration.

Hello boys.....

I will awnser the questions I know to those interested in thes car.

It's Formal name is "M4S"
It's a joint effort between Dodge and PPG.
Yes the engine made 440 HP.
Yes it can run a 1/4 in the 12's
It was powered by a DOHC Cosworth 2.2 liter Twin turbo (T25 garrett turbos).
It was built from a Fiero IMSA frame (tubular)
The head of the project was the NICEST fella by the name of BOB ACKERMAN.
The car was tested on a track in Marion Ohio.
NO it didn't hit 202 mph.... Actually it topped out at 194.8 mph.
It's front windsheild is from a Ferrari Boxer that has been tilted back to 73 degrees.

To the civic project guy.... EVERYTHING above is true. I can prove it.

Jeez, no one has said anything since my post?

No body has called bs?

No body has thanks me for the info?

Thanks for the info. :D :D

Your welcome. 8)

I don't know why it would be so hard to believe that it could hit 200 mph or so. If they only made a few of them I'm pretty sure they wouldn't push the red line in a top speed test.
http://www.badassmopars.150m.com/wraith3.jpg
It is hard to believe that this was made in the mid 80s! I bet if they put it into production today, it would give that Ferrari Enzo a run for its money.
I think they cost like $600,000. So... Thats alot of money.
So... That would be a pretty good run.


What am I thinking? Every body wants SUVs now-a-days.

i like cars, they can b v fast, and they sometimes bounce if they r going fast enough

[quote="Old_skool"]I don't know why it would be so hard to believe that it could hit 200 mph or so. If they only made a few of them I'm pretty sure they wouldn't push the red line in a top speed test.
http://www.badassmopars.150m.com/wraith3.jpg
It is hard to believe that this was made in the mid 80s! I bet if they put it into production today, it would give that Ferrari Enzo a run for its money.
I think they cost like $600,000. So... Thats alot of money.
So... That would be a pretty good run. /quote]

I think so too. The car was ahead of its time. After the vietnam war, a mostly pointless war i might add, America was in another financial rut and that is why this car never took off. No-one wanted to buy a car like this, granted in the late eighties we began to prosper again, but neverthless, mass producing a 'supercar' (something Dodge really hasn't done) was risky business, seeing that dodge mainly sells cars to the average-class people. I do think this car would give Ferrari a run for its money, and seeing that this car was made in the eighties, imagine what they could do to it now!! I still cant believe the damn gas mileage was so great!!!

Okay, I've been hearing two things about the engine in the M4S:
Its a 2.2 litre Cosworth
Its a 2.2 litre Dodge Daytona

It is a 2.2 litre Cosworth

oh BTW, there is a guy making a m4s body kit at www.wraithinnovations.com . Apparently he has completed 25% of his task, but still needs to make the actual cast or something. So if any of you want to buy an old fiero chasis and lighten this guys load on m4s body kits, i suggest you keep in touch with this man.

I also wanted to thank you guys for making this the third most popular topic to view in the American part of the forums. Thanks a lot guys. :!:

It is a cosworth 4 cyl coupled to a dodge daytona transmission (stick shift)

I don't know why it would be so hard to believe that it could hit 200 mph or so.

Thats because Blucam dis-believes everyone without a time slip. I can't say I blame him, but in this case words will have to do... Because they only made the one car, and its now on display, it will never be tested or run again.

All his comment like "Highly unlikely"... ect are just proof that he likes to dis-believe.

Not to say someone couldn't duplicate it. But that would take a lot of $$$

Unfortunately I think I will be forever obsessed with this car. I have loved this car since I first saw the movie "the Wraith" and it will always bite me arse that I will never have one. Oh BTW, cutlass, thanks for all the good info on it. Much appreciated it. I think perhaps if that car was a six speed, it could possibly hit 200.

Just as an FYI civic.... The maker (Bob Ackerman), of the car was highly opposed to the movie....

In my converstations with him, he said that his boss, himself and the guy pitching the movie sat down to takl about it, and even though he was opposed to letting them use the car, his boss had final say....

He then went on to talk about how one of the stuntmen was killed while making the movie....

I told him that had it not been for the movie, I probably would have never seen that car, and even though he dissapoved of the movie (the movie was not good IMO), I was happy I had seen it, as that car was one of the erliest forms of american techno-power I had ever seen....

all it says on the picture is 'bad request'

I can see why he was opposed to it, the movie was horrible. However, like you, I wouldn't have seen the car if I didn't watch the movie.

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/intlcutlass/M4S2.jpg


http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/intlcutlass/M4S3.jpg



http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/intlcutlass/M4S1.jpg



For those who were looking for some different pics.....

That guy standing behind the car is the man who designed it.
Yes my name is Lee.

please don't bring up dead topics

please don't bring up dead topics

Thanks for your input, Somebody PM'd me asking for more pics. Have a nice day. :roll:

please don't bring up dead topics

Agreed.......If someone PMed you e-mail the pics or if you must start a new topic...thanks

please don't bring up dead topics

Agreed.......If someone PMed you e-mail the pics or if you must start a new topic...thanks

I don't understand why?
What constitutes a dead topic?
If there is already a thread reguarding this , even if it's old, why is it I "Must" start a new topic?
I really don't get it. :?:

Dunno, people are weird at times. But those pics are good. Plus ive been hearing that they are coming out with a new 2.3litre cosworth engine for a focus RS, ive been thinking more seriously about developing a dodge m4s of my own, of course it wont be as powerful, but it will turn heads.

You could at least turn the pics round somehow, it gave me a stiff neck. :lol:

This car is known as 'The Wraith' or 'Turbo Interceptor' in the film. The vehicle was originally a pace car developed by Chrysler and PPG in 1984. Over 30 cars were constructed for the film for various stunts and crash sequences. The beauty version of the car featured a $30,000 paint job. The M4S was a slippery teardrop sports car design that was seriously considered for production. However, Dodge did not produce it because of high manufacturing costs (the marketing people in 1984 saw no market for a high-performance Dodge sports car for about $50,000 -- although the Viper proved otherwise).

The vehicle was track tested and achieved a top speed of 194.8 miles per hour. The car's drivetrain utilized a 5 speed manual transmission out of the '85 Dodge Turbo Daytona. The engine was a stock block, the durable 2.2 liter Inline four used in other Dodge offerings like the Dodge Daytona and Aries. This engine made 400 horsepower thanks to twin Garrett T25 turbos, a twincam Cosworth 16-valve cylinder head and Bosch L-Jettronic fuel injection (this research was later used to developed the 2.2 liter Turbo 4 used in the Iroc Daytona and Spirit R/T). Under normal driving conditions, this engine combination averaged around 27 mpg in the city and over 30 at highway speeds (mileage dropped to around 23 mpg past 150 mph).
Other Notable features on this car are Gullwing doors and its clam shell hood. The really nice part, this vehicle featured a mid-engine layout (very unique for a Mopar). Actually, the Dodge Designation M4S stands for Mid-engine 4 Cylinder Sport. The car also featured a perfect 50/50 weight distribution between its front wheels and rear wheels. It rolled on 15 inch aluminum wheels (depicted with a gold tint in the film). :shock:

Glad to see your cut and paste works..... :lol:


Ohh and BTW... 30cars made for the movie... they were only look alikes if there were even that many make... It was probably closer to 8-10...
I know you knew that, but my point is that the original was built on a Fiero IMSA tubular frame from Huffaker engineering special modified for the M4S, and not something that can be mass produced.

The engine in the replicars was probably a v6. I don't know that for sure, but I doubt the makers of the movie put forth the time and effort to drop in a high performance I4 , and seens on how V6's are cheap and plentifull, that would just be my guess. Movie makers are on a buget too.

3 things.
1. Nice info
2. Welcome Dark_rein. Enjoy your time here and
3. Don't bring up old topics.

"The engine was a stock block, the durable 2.2 liter Inline four used in other Dodge offerings like the Dodge Daytona and Aries. This engine made 400 horsepower thanks to twin Garrett T25 turbos, a twincam Cosworth 16-valve cylinder head and Bosch L-Jettronic fuel injection (this research was later used to developed the 2.2 liter Turbo 4 used in the Iroc Daytona and Spirit R/T)."

The engine in the Spirit R/T and Daytona IROC R/T was not the Turbo IV but the Turbo III. The Turbo IV was a VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbine) which was ment to reduce turbo lag. The Turbo III came out after the IV (figure that one out) and had a 16 valve head devloped by Lotus.

Hi I was there as I worked for Chrysler in 1986 I was lucky enough to view the PPG Pace car (the real Turbo Interceptor) and I have a picture of me sitting in it.

If anyone would like a true blue picture of the real deal "Wraith" send me an email to

quickshift66@hotmail.com and I`d be more then happy to send you an attachment of the image.

It truely was an amazing car then,and now.

Hi I was there as I worked for Chrysler in 1986 I was lucky enough to view the PPG Pace car (the real Turbo Interceptor) and I have a picture of me sitting in it.

If anyone would like a true blue picture of the real deal "Wraith" send me an email to

quickshift66@hotmail.com and I`d be more then happy to send you an attachment of the image.

It truely was an amazing car then,and now.

Nice to meet ya.... I have conversed with the guy who designed and oversaw the project... He was kind enough to send me posters, and 8x10's.

And your right ... that was is/was truely amazing...

I remember when this car was born and was blown away by the technology and power in this machine.

When I saw the stupid movie I was certain it was a Spice Engineering "Pontiac Fiero" that ran in IMSA Camel Lights. Huffaker fielded a couple powered by 2.7L "Super Duty" pushrod 4's. They put out maybe 270 hp, enough to give the Mazda Kudzus a hard time.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1986/Road_Atlanta-1986-04-06-024.jpg

Thanks to 12 inch pianist for the link.

When I saw the stupid movie I was certain it was a Spice Engineering "Pontiac Fiero" that ran in IMSA Camel Lights. Huffaker fielded a couple powered by 2.7L "Super Duty" pushrod 4's. They put out maybe 270 hp, enough to give the Mazda Kudzus a hard time.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1986/Road_Atlanta-1986-04-06-024.jpg

Thanks to 12 inch pianist for the link.

Obviously they are similar....
Good eyes too, because it's only after you guys refed that pic up that I see so many of the simiarities....Good call

intlcutlass,

All the Spice pics I could find from late '80's IMSA GT were listed as Spice SE86/87/88 w/various motors. Who's to say that that body design didn't appear earlier at some car show in Europe, seen by some movie puke?

For all its creativity, the movie business operates on cubic dollars compressing time:

"Can you build us 30 of those bodies, 20 flimsy, in 6 weeks for $X00,000?"

"Is an alligator a big lizard?"

intlcutlass,

All the Spice pics I could find from late '80's IMSA GT were listed as Spice SE86/87/88 w/various motors. Who's to say that that body design didn't appear earlier at some car show in Europe, seen by some movie puke?

For all its creativity, the movie business operates on cubic dollars compressing time:

"Can you build us 30 of those bodies, 20 flimsy, in 6 weeks for $X00,000?"

"Is an alligator a big lizard?"

Not sure where your going with this??

I will agree that the IMSA design shares some obvious similarities... , BUT the M4S was different. A 1 off so to speak.

Mustangs Rule All Cars Except Chevy 4x4 Trucks. Offroading Rules Too

civic proj maybe being on a mac may affect this ,but your link pops up in new window as a link to google images plain no pics (the home page if my random barblings doesnt help)

<---- TheCivicProject: That's me


Uhm, I'm not sure, I know MAC has compatibility problems with certain file types. I'm nto sure though, but if you look around for the car on the web, you might find some good stuff!

Also I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who knows about this car. I'd feel kind of stupid if no-one knew what I was talking about

My first replying to this site. :)

I loved this film and got The Wraith on DVD

What do you think this car would look like in your minds if Dodge decided to re-makes this sports car

Well My first post here and this thread caught my eye. One thing I have noticed is alot of people have false information here. Not even sure where the info is coming from . I have been in contact with the Walter P. Chrysler museum and they have the M4S there. They were kind enough to send me all the info they had regarding this vehicle. here are the specs directly from them .


Est . Cost was 1.5 Million

PPG Developed the paint( thats all) and it was a Bronze Pearl est. to cost 38k

The M4S is powered by a Chrysler 2.2 liter 4 cyl. with a Cosworth 16 valve head (specially modified)and twin Garret TurboChargers.
5 speed Transaxle.
Twin Bosch L-jetronic fuel metering system.
440 hp with max 23 lbs of boost. (also says develops 350bhp @7000 rpm)
BBS 16x9 Magnesium alloy wheels.
Huffaker tube chassis(modified)
Drag Co-efficient of 0.24

Vehicle is 186 inches long, 71.7 inches wide, 43.2 inches high, with a 100 inch wheelbase.

Specialized vehicles Inc. of Troy Mich. Handled the Modification to the Chassis, Engine, And roll cage.


Now On to the movie.

There where 7 cars used for the movie. The original car was used for closeups and details. 2 "Drivers" Consisting of perfect detailed bodies on Dune Buggy Chassis used for stunt driving, and 4 Shells on towable frames for the crash scenes. The bodies were all supplied by Chrysler. This is according to Gary Hellerstein (Transportation Coordinator for the movie)

I am prompted to post again on this thread. I will not quibble about details of powertrain, hp ratings, or number of cars used in the movie.

Both of the literate and alledgedly well-connected posters have mentioned Huffaker, tube frame, Fiero, and/or IMSA.

Huffaker did not build a tube frame car for IMSA racing. They bought rolling chassis/bodies from Spice Engineering of England and raced them in IMSA Camel Lights as Pontiac Fieros. Any of the numerous posters here who use the term "design" in place of "styling" should be able to recognize their similarity to the "Wraith" car.

The M4S was built as a pace/show car, not as a technology demonstrator.

Carmakers lie with a regularity only equalled by that of racers, car magazines, and politicians.

Unless someone can show me a copy of a contract for Huffaker to deliver 1(one) chassis of unique design to Chrysler, I will continue to assert that the M4S is an adaptation/modification of a previously existing race car.

A "1 off, so to speak" is something that starts with a clean sheet of paper.

wasnt this the IMSA Feiro ? http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1985/Road_America-1985-08-25-050.jpg

Also the Spice "Camel Car" Made its debut in 1986 I believe. The M4S was competed in 1984

This car is not so bad for bring old school

I am prompted to post again on this thread. I will not quibble about details of powertrain, hp ratings, or number of cars used in the movie.

Both of the literate and alledgedly well-connected posters have mentioned Huffaker, tube frame, Fiero, and/or IMSA.

Huffaker did not build a tube frame car for IMSA racing. They bought rolling chassis/bodies from Spice Engineering of England and raced them in IMSA Camel Lights as Pontiac Fieros. Any of the numerous posters here who use the term "design" in place of "styling" should be able to recognize their similarity to the "Wraith" car.

The M4S was built as a pace/show car, not as a technology demonstrator.

Carmakers lie with a regularity only equalled by that of racers, car magazines, and politicians.

Unless someone can show me a copy of a contract for Huffaker to deliver 1(one) chassis of unique design to Chrysler, I will continue to assert that the M4S is an adaptation/modification of a previously existing race car.

A "1 off, so to speak" is something that starts with a clean sheet of paper.

This is an email sent to me from the guy who designed the car, you are correct on 98% of everything you hve stated.....

"Mike Koran of Special Vehicles Inc. (SVI) emailed me regarding your request for information about the Dodge M4-S

I was asked to design a Dodge PPG pace car in l982 for completion and use in the PPG Indy Car Series for l983.* Chrysler could not start eh chassis from scratch, so I suggested using a race car chassis that Joe Huffeker, Engineering was making for the Pontiac Fiero Race Car.* A chassis was then purchased by PPG and sent to SVI for further modification.
In the meantime, I was working at Special Projects Inc. on the body form which was later cast and sent to SVI for installation on the chassis.

This car originally had 21 coats of lacquer and the windshield is from a Ferrari Boxer tipped to 73 degrees (six degrees more than in the Ferrari).

I am not retired from Chrysler and have some pictures that I thought you might appreciate if you send me your mailing address.* If you would like any additional information, you have my email address and my phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Do you know the weight?



Hello boys.....

I will awnser the questions I know to those interested in thes car.

It's Formal name is "M4S"
It's a joint effort between Dodge and PPG.
Yes the engine made 440 HP.
Yes it can run a 1/4 in the 12's
It was powered by a DOHC Cosworth 2.2 liter Twin turbo (T25 garrett turbos).
It was built from a Fiero IMSA frame (tubular)
The head of the project was the NICEST fella by the name of BOB ACKERMAN.
The car was tested on a track in Marion Ohio.
NO it didn't hit 202 mph.... Actually it topped out at 194.8 mph.
It's front windsheild is from a Ferrari Boxer that has been tilted back to 73 degrees.

To the civic project guy.... EVERYTHING above is true. I can prove it.

I know its about the weight of a dodge daytona. 2,600 or 3,600. I cant remember which.

I apologize for my dino-crasho-puter. I thought I posted weeks ago in response to slip:

That: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1985/Road_America-1985-08-25-050.jpg is an IMSA GTU (<3.0L), a caged and reinforced production-based Pontiac Fiero.

This: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Mid-Ohio-1987-06-07-0001.jpg

and this: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Mid-Ohio-1987-06-07-0009.jpg

are Gordon Spice Engineering(UK) built IMSA Camel GTP Lights cars powered by 3.0L Pontiac "Super Duty" I4 motors.

-----

Cease-fire. Wave olive branch. Hosting expired on the original Chrysler/PPG M4S pics. Can I see some pace car pics?

Hehehe, man thats a good site

I apologize for my dino-crasho-puter. I thought I posted weeks ago in response to slip:

That: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1985/Road_America-1985-08-25-050.jpg is an IMSA GTU (<3.0L), a caged and reinforced production-based Pontiac Fiero.

This: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Mid-Ohio-1987-06-07-0001.jpg

and this: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Mid-Ohio-1987-06-07-0009.jpg

are Gordon Spice Engineering(UK) built IMSA Camel GTP Lights cars powered by 3.0L Pontiac "Super Duty" I4 motors.

-----

Cease-fire. Wave olive branch. Hosting expired on the original Chrysler/PPG M4S pics. Can I see some pace car pics?

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/ctc53478.bmp (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/3uS53615.bmp (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/4Q653775.bmp (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/JCw54241.jpg (http://www.imagecabin.com)

I also have the weight from some info I got from the Chrysler Museum where is is located and I will dig it up after work.

WOW, that is a nice car, both looks and performance, very unique styling, good chassis shape, gives ideas for Photoshopping :D

And damn I cant find that weight anywhere. I thought it was in the 2500lbs range but I will keep looking for it.

And damn I cant find that weight anywhere. I thought it was in the 2500lbs range but I will keep looking for it.

Hmm so I thought that it is lighter.
Do you know which materials their used to build its body?

yeah fiberglass

OK and since I dont want this thread to die...lol I have just been in contact with Joe Huffaker of Huffaker engineering and he tells me that they Built 16 tube-frame Pontiac Fiero's all for IMSA
competition. They did purchase 1 prototype spice chassis when they
decided to continue with the Super-Duty Pontiac 4 cylinder developoment
program, in a different class: GT Lights. And dominated in that class.

but on a side note he is unsure whos chassis design it is but says it could be a spice chassis, I had to send him pics of the M4s because he had never seen it ..lol. This goes againest even the info that Chrysler sent me that said it was a huffaker chassis.


More to come

That is weird.....MMMMnnnnn

Yeah ....he tells me it may be a huffaker chassis but not to his knowledge


*** UPDATE***

I have had email convos all day with Joe Huffaker...WOW. Great day for me. And he really never seen the car. But ...I did send him several photos of the rear framework and he says it is a striking resemblance to their Pontiac Fiero tubes in one of the rear shots. The rest is too hard
to identify. He asked me when the car will be on display again (October) and he is gonna take a closer look.

Also Specialized Vehicles did ring a bell to him. He is going to look into it more. I guess I got him wondering if it is his Chassis now ...lol

U R too kewl, slip. I was seriously planning to contact Huffaker Engineering. Gordon Spice Enginering has no current web presence.

Your pics #3 and #6 show square tubing of bare/different finish welded to pre-existing black finished round tube structure. This is a modification/adaptation. Which part looked familiar to Huffaker?

Yes, intl, this gets weird.

WEll he did not specify what resembled their work. I have 9 emails here. But I guess what it comes down to is that he can not rule out that its not his frame....But he does not recall selling one to PPG or chrysler. Im sure you would recall that..lol

Now that does not mean that PPG/Chrysler didnt purchase one of his customer cars or another name was used to purchase a chassis then modified. I hope this might put a end to this mess....lol

he was also nice enough to email me a few photos

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/ZPv99026.jpg (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/XC699136.jpg (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/xcB99235.jpg (http://www.imagecabin.com/)

And thanks Steve its not everyday someone tells you your kewl...lmoa. I just like to get the correct info thats all.

Look , I can understand a certain amount of skepticism, but, as I stated, My information was from the guy who designed the M4S… I would trust his memory more than I would Huffaker’s only because that would be like a sales person trying to remember a certain cust from almost 18 years ago.
To Bob, this car was one of the highlights to his career.
Trust me , that’s a modified Huffaker frame…. I have been in love with this car for a long time. I have had conversations with people trying to re-make it, and have offered pointers. I have original paint ships from the 30K paint job, as well as a paint chip from the clones. I have a couple 8x10’s of the car sent to me from the designer, as well as a kick ass poster he sent…. I know what I am talking about. On our last conversation together he had even expressed interest in making a 1/12 scale model. I told him I wanted to be the first to buy if this comes true….

Look , I can understand a certain amount of skepticism, but, as I stated, My information was from the guy who designed the M4S… I would trust his memory more than I would Huffaker’s only because that would be like a sales person trying to remember a certain cust from almost 18 years ago.
To Bob, this car was one of the highlights to his career.
Trust me , that’s a modified Huffaker frame…. I have been in love with this car for a long time. I have had conversations with people trying to re-make it, and have offered pointers. I have original paint ships from the 30K paint job, as well as a paint chip from the clones. I have a couple 8x10’s of the car sent to me from the designer, as well as a kick ass poster he sent…. I know what I am talking about. On our last conversation together he had even expressed interest in making a 1/12 scale model. I told him I wanted to be the first to buy if this comes true….


So the chassis designer has no clue I guess? Joe said the tubes on the rear look like his design. He had just never seen the M4S. I had all the info you had without talking to the designer. I have also Had convos with people in the past that have tried to remake it and also the latest wraith car at thewraithcar.com I have also considered making my own Full Scale replica.

Well My first post here and this thread caught my eye. One thing I have noticed is alot of people have false information here. Not even sure where the info is coming from . I have been in contact with the Walter P. Chrysler museum and they have the M4S there. They were kind enough to send me all the info they had regarding this vehicle. here are the specs directly from them .


Est . Cost was 1.5 Million

PPG Developed the paint( thats all) and it was a Bronze Pearl est. to cost 38k

The M4S is powered by a Chrysler 2.2 liter 4 cyl. with a Cosworth 16 valve head (specially modified)and twin Garret TurboChargers.
5 speed Transaxle.
Twin Bosch L-jetronic fuel metering system.
440 hp with max 23 lbs of boost. (also says develops 350bhp @7000 rpm)
BBS 16x9 Magnesium alloy wheels.
Huffaker tube chassis(modified)
Drag Co-efficient of 0.24

Vehicle is 186 inches long, 71.7 inches wide, 43.2 inches high, with a 100 inch wheelbase.

Specialized vehicles Inc. of Troy Mich. Handled the Modification to the Chassis, Engine, And roll cage.


Now On to the movie.

There where 7 cars used for the movie. The original car was used for closeups and details. 2 "Drivers" Consisting of perfect detailed bodies on Dune Buggy Chassis used for stunt driving, and 4 Shells on towable frames for the crash scenes. The bodies were all supplied by Chrysler. This is according to Gary Hellerstein (Transportation Coordinator for the movie)
thank you guys so much for all the info. the m4s has been my dream car since the age of 7 i watched "the wraith" about a million times it was my fav movie when i was younger. That car has been a huge part of my life I still plan to own one it has been a dream for many years. intlcutlass,old skool,civic all of you guys are awsome all the info was great and also the PICS that was the best part thanks again

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ROFOFMLFDMLMLFAMLAMFF

IT's 1:20 AM...
I'm DEAD Tired..

But you cannot tell me this doesn't look like
Muffaker(mu***ka(Mutha ***ka(etc)))

http://www.imagecabin.com/images/ZPv99026.jpg

yeah it does but u need sleep dude lol

It looks different to me.... If anything, I would say it looks like an XJ220..... but the M4S came out about 10 years prior to the Jag.

here's what I could find hope it's a little helpful URL: http://www.chryslerheritage.com/mag4_fall00.pdf try page 21 for a little info. This place should help too, http://www.allpar.com/squads/pace.html second paragraph. Enjoy:D

Here's a good pic for ya's too http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/dodge/ppg_interceptor_01eight.jpg

posted those pics on page 7 already. Im sure everything about this car has been said .

This is the best thread ever. Seriously.

I know its mopar but whats with the gold GTA/1LE rims?

lol, dunno.. but the wire rims do seem to go with the rest of the car. Gold lettering, and gold rims.... old school indeed. ;)

If they actually mass produced that body kit, I'd be the first one to get it

Well Start saving your pennies. 2 People are in the process of building it. I is based of one of the stunt cars.

http://thewraithcar.com/
http://www.wraithinnovations.com/turbointerceptor.html

i've been to those sites over and over again, not much progress changed

im not too keen on that car i just dont like the overall shape but i dont really like old cars anyway soz but that is just the way i feel

i've been to those sites over and over again, not much progress changed


Well with www.thewraithcar.com (http://www.thewraithcar.com/) he is trying to build this car to as close to original as possible. So there is alot of research involved. This includes the same drivetrain and everything else he can get. I have emailed him back and forth several times and he wants it done right.


Now with that being said if you could have a body such as this. What kind of chassis would you mount it on? There have been a few built in the past as one off cars ( no molds/plugs made) using various platforms. In the years I have been involved with kitcars I have not seen much intrest in this car. Just the occasional person (including myself)that would like it.

Also has been a few scams in the past including this one. http://members.tripod.com/mcwalkerusa/dalesar.html

Well with www.thewraithcar.com (http://www.thewraithcar.com) he is trying to build this car to as close to original as possible. So there is alot of research involved. This includes the same drivetrain and everything else he can get. I have emailed him back and forth several times and he wants it done right.


Now with that being said if you could have a body such as this. What kind of chassis would you mount it on? There have been a few built in the past as one off cars ( no molds/plugs made) using various platforms. In the years I have been involved with kitcars I have not seen much intrest in this car. Just the occasional person (including) myself that would like it.

Also has been a few scams in the past including this one. http://members.tripod.com/mcwalkerusa/dalesar.html

Yeah I remember that website
Can't believe some jerks would do that...

Also, I know I've mentioned this before but, I think the way gas prices are going up and there is a need for more fuel efficient cars, that there is a definate market for super duty 4 cylinders that get great mileage

Bad news guys the Walter P. Chrysler Museum is doesn't currently display the M4S and they do not have any plans to display it in the future as of right now. THAT SUCKS!!!!

Doesn't anybody care about the M4S anymore???:smt011

I do.

Always will. Freggn love that car.

I wouldn't get caught dead driving that car..
I'm sorry..but that makes Vectors look "sensably styled"

I do.

Always will. Freggn love that car.Did you read my other post?? The Walter P. Chrysler museum isn't displaying it anymore and are not going to anytime soon. But I still might get to see one I have been in contact with the guy who is restoring one of the ones that was in the movie. He lives pretty close to me and wants me to come check it out.

That sucks about the museum... but at least it's good to know there's still a strong following for this car! I've been following the guy's progress at www.thewraithcar.com (http://www.thewraithcar.com) as well... can't wait till he gets a good kit made up... I know where I can get tons of 2.2 engines... but the cosworth heads seem to be a bit harder to find :D